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I don't know about the rest of you, some of you may or may not have already crossed a similar scenario in the past, but I haven't myself but it's something I thought I would bring up: Suppose that I were to find myself in a discussion of religious views and beliefs, in this case with someone who happened to be a Christian, and he/she were to ask me the question of, "Do you believe in God?" As an in-the-closet pagan, I would not want to feel 'put in the cauldron' if you will, by this sort of question. I think it would be good to be prepared before hand to avoid stumbling around or trying to dodge the question. I'm sure many of you would be straight-out with your own response. However, were I ever to be in a conversation with a person(s) and was asked if I believed in God, my answer would simply be that I believed in something different than that of 'God'. It might not be the best answer, but I would hope that I would be careful enough with my answer as to not accidentally alarm or raise eyebrows, esp. by simply saying no.

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It says they did all this for Ba'al but that does not dispute the fact that according to the bible, the biblical god, Moses, Joushua, Elijah, Paul and other have stated that Ba'al was a false god. It would be the same in their eyes as someone saying their salt shaker was a god. They believed that these statues were merely false gods at best or at worst demons posing as gods. Similar to someone attributing the car the characteristics of the Person/people that made it. A created being cannot be the same as the eternal being that created him/her in their understanding. I already listed a few verses and once again is the Mount Carmel encounter where they perfiormed all their rituals and nothing happened. The bible is aadament that anyother god other than Yaweh is a False god. Look at Ps 4:2, 40:4, Jer 13:25, 16:9 Amos 2 and serveral others some of which I stated earlier where the Bible states that their god is G-d alone.

 

Ok here is a weird yet applicable instance. I decide that "sarah" is my wife. I give her a ring,(as  in here is a ring take it, no ceremony no paperwwork, etc.) take care of all her needs (Finances, housing etc...housing meaning I pay her rent/mortgage) and call her my wife does not make her my wife. The point of the bible was that all the actions they did were futile, fruitless, worthless because  the only true G-d is Yaweh. I can say the sky is pink and has a singing frog floating above my house and live my life as though it is. That  does not make it true. The point concisely stated is these verses are statements of what people did not acknowledgment that the god was real. Picture a commentator on a History/Discovery special: These people did....

The Bible states that G-d is the one true god. All other gods are false gods or demons posing as god. Is 48:12, and Is 46:9 "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me." "I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God." Is 45:5 Paul speaks against people that worship angels or anything else in Col 2:18. The issue in debating judeo-christians is not what the bible says about G-d because it is quite clear. You speak on Ba'al but you forget the Mount Carmel showdown with Elijah. Elijah wanted to prove that Ba'al was not truly a god at all. According to the Bible He was proven right. The issue in debating a Christian is not errors in the Bible against itself but in whether or not there is only one god. Was Ba'al a false god as the bible claims.

The Bible states that G-d is the one true god. All other gods are false gods or demons posing as god. Is 48:12, and Is 46:9 "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and
there is no one like Me." "I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart
from me there is no God." Is 45:5 Paul speaks against people that
worship angels or anything else in Col 2:18. The issue in debating
judeo-christians is not what the bible says about G-d because it is
quite clear. You speak on Ba'al but you forget the Mount Carmel showdown
with Elijah. Elijah wanted to prove that Ba'al was not truly a god at
all. According to the Bible He was proven right. The issue in debating a
Christian is not errors in the Bible against itself but in whether or
not there is only one god. Was Ba'al a false god as the bible claims.

 

All of this "evidence" does not state that there is only one god, Andrew. It is stating that there is only one god that should be worshipped: Big difference. 

 

They did a good job with you, didn't they? *lol*

I for one do not say ba'al is a false god. I was just stating that the Judeo-christian current understanding and biblical text says he is. I state that somewhere in my replies lol. We must first rightly establish what the Bible says and teaches before we can bring up that it was altered and the original Hebrew faith was polytheistic even in as much as saying Yaweh had a female consort... The one true G-d had a Goddess. That is proven through extra-biblical research not in the bible. They have done a great job making sure the bible is solid over the years.

Monotheism always has a polytheistic history. All Biblical hermeneutists know this.

 

Regardless of what is "current" and "taught" as true, evidence is evidence. Please show me where the Bible states categorically that Ba'al does not exist as a god.

Hmmmm?

OK I did this before, but Here is a detailed list from just one book:

Isaiah 45:6

    6That (A)men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
         That there is (B)no one besides Me.
         I am the LORD, and there is no other,

Cross references:

   1. Isaiah 45:6 : Ps 102:15; Mal 1:11
   2. Isaiah 45:6 : Is 45:5

Isaiah 45:14

 14Thus says the LORD,
         "The products of (A)Egypt and the merchandise of (B)Cush
         And the Sabeans, men of stature,
         Will (C)come over to you and will be yours;
         They will walk behind you, they will come over in (D)chains
         And will (E)bow down to you;
         They will make supplication to you:
         'Surely, (F)God is with you, and (G)there is none else,
         No other God.'"

Cross references:

   1. Isaiah 45:14 : Ps 68:31; Is 19:21
   2. Isaiah 45:14 : Is 18:1; 43:3
   3. Isaiah 45:14 : Is 14:1, 2; 49:23; 54:3
   4. Isaiah 45:14 : Ps 149:8
   5. Isaiah 45:14 : Is 49:23; 60:14
   6. Isaiah 45:14 : Jer 16:19; Zech 8:20-23; 1 Cor 14:25
   7. Isaiah 45:14 : Is 45:5

Isaiah 45:18

 18For thus says the LORD, who (A)created the heavens (He is the God who (B)formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a (C)waste place, but formed it to be (D)inhabited),
         "I am the LORD, and (E)there is none else.

Cross references:

   1. Isaiah 45:18 : Is 42:5
   2. Isaiah 45:18 : Is 45:12
   3. Isaiah 45:18 : Gen 1:2
   4. Isaiah 45:18 : Gen 1:26; Ps 115:16
   5. Isaiah 45:18 : Is 45:5

Isaiah 45:21

    21"(A)Declare and set forth your case;
         Indeed, let them consult together
         (B)Who has announced this from of old?
         Who has long since declared it?
         Is it not I, the LORD?
         And there is (C)no other God besides Me,
         A righteous God and a (D)Savior;
         There is none except Me.

Cross references:

   1. Isaiah 45:21 : Is 41:23; 43:9
   2. Isaiah 45:21 : Is 41:26; 44:7; 48:14
   3. Isaiah 45:21 : Is 45:5
   4. Isaiah 45:21 : Is 43:3, 11

Isaiah 46:9

    9"Remember the (A)former things long past,
         For I am God, and there is (B)no other;
         I am God, and there is (C)no one like Me,

Cross references:

   1. Isaiah 46:9 : Deut 32:7; Is 42:9; 65:17
   2. Isaiah 46:9 : Is 45:5, 21
   3. Isaiah 46:9 : Is 41:26, 27

If you would like more just ask. When I mentioned it before I put just two passages by chapter and verse numbers only as well as showing where Paul said that men that worship of angels disqualifies you from the prize again by chapter and verse  number only. This time I gave you verses cross reference material and bold and underlined where it says it flat out. There are also instances in Levi. Ex. Job. and many more

Andrew...

 

That there is (B)no one besides Me.
         I am the LORD, and there is no other,

 

        'Surely, (F)God is with you, and (G)there is none else,
         No other God.'"

 

 18For thus says the LORD, who (A)created the heavens (He is the God who (B)formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a (C)waste place,
but formed it to be (D)inhabited),

         "I am the LORD, and (E)there is none else.

 

         And there is (C)no other God besides Me,

 

         There is none except Me.

 

All of the above Biblical citations just gives me the impression of a z/jealous god that doesn't want anyone worshipping another god. Saying "[T]here is no other God beside Me" may mean that one cannot worship another god if one worships the Christian god. If I were a god, I'm sure I'd say the same O_o

 

None of the citations tell me categorically that there is only one god in existence. These all refer to a one "true" (sic.) god.


I'm following your thought process on this Andrew, and I agree that the current state of Christianity is not Henotheistic.  Even if it has a Henotheistic history.

 

How do Christian of today reconcile this?

Wow Pav. The definitive article of the and exclusive nature of no one, none and no other do not state definitively that there is the god and no one stands beside him. Wait there is a verse that says exactly that. All you have is a whinny he is jealous. Which is opinion, conjecture, grasping for a reason because the printed words cannot be directly refuted and you cannot verses that expressly contradict that. Whether or not he is jealous has no bearing on whether the "sacred scripture" says that definitively and it root of all current judeo-christian belief. 

No matter what verses I put they won't count because David will have been pissed at so and so or moses was setting himself up to be the authority. These points of contention are separate points and do not sway the fact that the faith states and believes the exclusivity of Yaweh. What those statements like the one you made argue is the reliability of the faith as a whole. It does not change the absolute definitive nature of those verses or these:

Deu 4:39 "Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the LORD Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.

 

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!

 

Deu 8:19 "Then it shall be, if you by any means forget the LORD your God, and follow other gods, and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.

 

Deu 10:14 "Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it.

 

Deu 10:17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe.

 

Deu 32:39 'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

 Josh 2:11 "And as soon as we heard these things, our hearts melted; neither did there remain any more courage in anyone because of you, for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven
above and on earth beneath.

 2 Sam 7:22 "Therefore You are great, O Lord GOD. For there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

 2 Sam 22:32 "For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

 1 Ki 8:60 "that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God; there is no other.

 2 Ki 5:15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his aides, and came and stood before him; and he said, "Indeed, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, except in Israel;
now therefore, please take a gift from your servant."

 2 Ki 19:15 Then Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said: "O LORD God of Israel, the One who dwells between the cherubim, You are God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You
have made heaven and earth.

 1 Chr 17:20 "O LORD, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

 2 Chr 6:14 and he said: "LORD God of Israel, there is no God in heaven or on earth like You, who keep Your covenant and mercy with Your servants who walk before You with all their
hearts.

 2 Chr 20:5 Then Jehoshaphat stood in the assembly of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the LORD, before the new court,

2 Chr 20:6 and said: "O LORD God of our fathers, are You not God in heaven, and do You not rule over all the kingdoms of the nations, and in Your hand is there not power and might, so
that no one is able to withstand You?

 Neh 9:6 You alone are the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of
heaven worships You.

 Psa 18:31 For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

 Psa 86:10 For You are great, and do wondrous things; You alone are God.

 Psa 100:3 Know that the LORD, He is God; It is He who has made us, and not we ourselves; We are His people and the sheep of His pasture.

Isa 37:16 "O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, the One who dwells between the cherubim, You are God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.

 Isa 37:20 "Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that You are the LORD, You alone."

 Isa 43:10 "You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall
there be after Me.

 Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.

 Isa 44:8 Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.'"

 Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me,

Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other;

 Isa 45:14 Thus says the LORD: "The labor of Egypt and merchandise of Cush And of the Sabeans, men of stature, Shall come over to you, and they shall be yours; They shall walk behind you, They shall come
over in chains; And they shall bow down to you. They will make
supplication to you, saying, 'Surely God is in you, And there
is no other; There is no other God.'"

Just a note I didn't scratch the surface of the looooooong list of verses that state these things. John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god. Gen 1 In the beginning god. Exodous He says I am I am and so on and so on.  

I do wish to apologize for the snarky nature of my rebuttal. I have not slept in almost 24 hrs and am exhausted. I never dispute the root of the faith just its current representation. We cannot debate and discuss with them if we have a false or self-gratifying notion of their faith instead of what it actually is currently. I did not read every comment before posting and now cannot delete my previous posts. Sleepy me is an assy me lol <smacks myself> Bad Andrew no Pizza

I do wish to apologize for the snarky nature of my rebuttal. I have not slept in almost 24 hrs and am exhausted. I never dispute the root of the faith just its current representation. We cannot debate and discuss with them if we have a false or self-gratifying notion of their faith instead of what it actually is currently. I did not read every comment before posting and now cannot delete my previous posts. Sleepy me is an assy me lol <smacks myself> Bad Andrew no Pizza

 

Believe me, Andrew, *NOTHING* on the net bothers me on an emotional level. If someone calls me all the names under the sun, I laugh and make a narky comment. I'm pretty sociopathic when it comes to this medium of expression as I'm not here to make friends and be all nicey-nicey with people.

 

Anyway, back to the henotheism/monotheism. Let's view it from another angle.

 

Does Christianity come from Judaism?

Was early Judaism henotheistic?

If early Judaism was henotheistic, how do Christians reconcile their monotheism with its henotheistic history?

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