Death by Belief: The Nocebo Effect

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by saffron on July 5, 2009 at 8:01pm

I love discussions that are actually on magickal theory and practice. :3

The doctor with the lizard was brilliant! It's amazing how much people's beliefs can affect the state of their health. I wonder though why it works in some cases and not in others?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by brentster on July 5, 2009 at 8:36pm

I would agree with you, and note that we don't know that it worked here. I've witnessed some very moving psychological things and the mental prowess that it takes to manifest them... but with that said.... of why in some and not others.... is that in the case of the others there is no differentiation to the result and the act via the means.... only specualtion that follows from the belief of what was involved.

Religious magicks are nearly left as speculative against an outcome yet to pass as well.... does that mean that the action wasn't successful? or just that it hadn't taken it's place yet?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by saffron on July 6, 2009 at 5:28am

Are you saying we don't know that the doctor's trick cured Vanders? Or that we don't know know the witch doctor's curse is what made Vanders ill? Or are you referring to a different part of the article?

If you are referring to the Vanders case, what criteria would you need to have met to consider it proven? He was inspected by a doctor, deemed ill but with no explainable cause (other than the "hex" - either it worked or the man's belief that it worked caused the illness), and then recovered after the doctor's trick. The incident was confirmed by 4 medical professionals. Of course there's always the possibility that he had something that the doctors didn't know how to diagnose... but that will always be a possibility in any case. So then is it ever provable? Or is it acceptable to overlook this?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Lonely-Wind on July 5, 2009 at 10:55pm

Yeah, like I've said, "Truth is but a manifested lie". The mind is a powerful part of us. I have a friend who's from Haiti that told me that there have been a few men who have been made bulletproof. And when one man was caught they tried to execute him, but failed, they required another witchdocter to counter the spell before executing him.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Kalinda on July 9, 2009 at 6:27pm

It's true. Very true. The mind is that powerful, you can influence your physical body through mere belief. Which, also has the potential implication that we can control diseases with our thoughts. I have first-hand experience/awareness of the Placebo and Nocebo effect in action. I notice that I get a headache, and the second I take aspirin it goes away....I think fear also plays a big role. One night I read in my book about the 'Death Curse' that was written in detail about the procedure. That night before I went to bed I was suddenly overcome by the same effects of paralysis starting in the toes and dread. But I quickly rationalized it was not real. I think there's problem with irrational beliefs or unfounded ones causing physical reactions. I think a lot of the mainstream attitudes towards sickness influence how it pans out. And the idea that a mere thought actually has influence over you on a more complex scale is interesting...and also after reading this I decided to test it...I have had a bad headache for the past few hours and I can't take exedrine because the way the caffeine effects me. So I tried thinking 'My headache has gone away,' and the pain has lessened....and I think the same goes for depression too, people have reasons and need to find the source.

▶ Reply to This