Didn't know where else to put this...

...yes, this is my first time starting my own thread, took me ten minutes playing around to figure it out. XD I was going to leave this as a reply in http://www.paganspace.net/forum/topics/mother-earth-is-pissed-off-d... , but I went off on a tangent, and I deleted that beccause I sounded like a windbag. It was a fascinating learning experience, and I've got something interesting to chew on now. *g* Wonder if you all will find it as tasty as I do? First bite.

Humans are gifted with abnormally large brains, that is our species-specific set of sharp teeth. We are so physically helpless because our large brains allow us to craft tools from and manipulate the world around us to our advantage. As a species, we are highly adaptable to a point where it's abnormal when compared with other lifeforms on this planet.

We are, so far as anyone is aware, the only creatures on the planet capable of even coming close to comprehending the numinous, even if it is only through the lens of the human condition (organized religion, individual gnosis, lack of belief in any hgiher power, etc). Emotionally, mentally, and socially, we are the most complicated species we're aware of that has concrete, irrefutible evidence to support its existence in fact.

We're a remarkable miracle of a species in every sense of the word. I could expound on the goodness of humanity but I could also write more on how much we suck.

I've been playing with an idea for about an hour and a half, which is also how long as I type *these words here* that I've been playing with this post, too, and I'm wondering what everyone else thinks.

Does anyone else think that we're Diety's attempt at perfection? If so, do you think we're not the first? Regardless, do you think we, as a species, are capable of being Diety's success? Or is it too late, and we've screwed up too much, and screwed over our own Earth Mother while we're at it?

Another something to chew on would be if we are Diety's attempt at perfection, why? We are certainly capable of flattening large groups of evolutionarily inferior species (lower on the food chain) like a lawnmower through a yard. We're also capable of acting to preserve those same creatures, their habitats, food sources, ways of life, etc. We can shit-talk our neighbors and walk through our doors and lavish affection on our lovers. We are capable of killing others of our own kind, and we gladly give birth to and delight in our childrens' accomplishments and milestones reached, their very existence even. We can use our words to inflame large numbers of our fellows into a violent fury and we are also capable of preaching a message of peace, love, tolerance, and equality. Here's the point of this mini-book: Are we some sort of guides/guardians/stewards? My mother accused me of blaspheming God and His angels with this comparison, but are we - certainly not servants or slaves - stewards? Of what? Or will we be, if we "grow up" as a species?

Am I crazy? Did this crap come out of too much chocolate and an overdose of heat? *g* So is this some good brain food or does it taste like crap?

Ok, I'm calling this done. 2.5 hours after first starting this post, entirely deleting it four times, giving myself a headache over it, and I've still managed to confuse myself. Anyone got ideas, opinions, criticisms, etc, to munch on? I'm curious. ^_^

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Permalink Reply by Laura on July 7, 2012 at 12:28am

What an interesting topic! It's too soon for me to post a reply. I want to really think about this one. So I will definitely be sleeping on this tonight. Maybe tomorrow I will have at least a slighty coherent opinion. :P

Permalink Reply by Maris Hellfaerie (Maire) on July 7, 2012 at 3:49am

No, it is just "change or die"

There is no perfection in a system that kills everything off that remains static, the very idea of "perfection" is rather pointless to the scientific view which is under the impression of a chaotic nature that works only with trial and error, which does not make it less "awesome".

Permalink Reply by Caitlin on July 7, 2012 at 5:40am

No. We are a product of evolution. Our species had to adapt to a continuously changing Earth (warm, cold, warm, then cold again, etc.) We are still evolving and deity has NOTHING to do with that. In fact, EVERY species evolves and has evolved, not just us. As Maire said it is simply "change or die".

You are not crazy, however your viewpoints are incredibly short sighted and uninformed about how we got to where we are, why, and that we, as well as all other creatures on earth are still evolving. We share a majority of our genetics with apes something of about 99% and it was only VERY recently that we evolved. We are no where near the most complicated species genetically and if you want to talk about species that were far better at surviving, the dinosaurs lived many eons longer than we have. If it were not for an unforeseen meteor strike, we may still be little mammals burrowing underground, certainly not top predators. Thank the KT extinction for that. Like it or not, much of what got us here was luck and adaptation. Nothing more. And if you want to really see who is top dog, the alligators/crocodiles and sharks have our butts beat..they've been around far longer than us, have not had to adapt nearly as much and are still major predatory species on our earth. Just saying.

Permalink Reply by Ms.Pouncer-Curiousier&Curiousier on July 7, 2012 at 6:50am

Just a random, too early in the morning, thought.... what if evolution IS a form of divine intervention?

Permalink Reply by Logos Tartaros on July 7, 2012 at 2:55pm

...or the other way around...

What if divine intervention is a product of evolution?

Permalink Reply by Caitlin on July 7, 2012 at 4:51pm

This tends to be my thought.

Permalink Reply by Mary Jo Fowlie on July 7, 2012 at 11:31am

Much to chew on. ^_^ Here's another something: We as a species are notoriously destructive, and most other creatures on Earth sense this to a point. Put yourself in a rainforest and you will hear silence, not the noise of animals going about their lives as though we aren't there. Most of what is there hides in the presence of a dangerous predator, though physically we are weak compared to much of what lives in that rainforest. We are susceptible to venoms of creatures as well as plants, we need a regular sleep schedule and a carefully balanced set of nutrients to be taken in daily to function properly. Proportionately speaking, we can't go without water or food as long as other species. An individual human is amazingly vulnerable in the rainforest. Why, then, are all other creatures silent? The creatures that do go after humans are either provoked into doing so by humans, or are large enough to handle a single human, and do so rather well. Why do we shiver at the sight of a strange-looking insect or creature that is so much smaller?

We are not "the shit". Insects feed on us, bacteria foreign to our bodies, as well as viruses sicken us with ease. Smaller creatures outmaneuver us and cause us serious damage. On the other side of the same page: we can't control the weather (no matter what conspiracy theorists think), we are easily killed, our social structures are too fluid to establish long-term survival in this world (our destructive natures caused us to survive thus far), we are helpless at birth and for much of our childhoods, etc. For how awesome we are as a species, we are thwarted from absolute power at every turn. Personally, I don't think we're supposed to have absolute power to begin with. We fit, surprisingly easily, into the puzzle of creation, however it came to be. How we don't fit is our own doing, and is, in practise, easily rectified. Or, it would be if everyone lived within the rhythms of the seasons, used cleaner energy, etc.

We as a species are powerful, but only as powerful as our natural habitat allows us to be. To what end? We are just as much a part of this world as any other life-form in it, and yet we have larger brains, are able to mentally separate ourselves from it, or look at the entire system objectively. I'm not barking genetics here, but ability. We fit neatly into the picture, but we are also capable of seeing the picture and wondering "why?".

So, why? The definition of "perfection" as we are able to understand it is as fluid as societal structures, and dependant entirely on the individual. So, human-colored supposed-perfections aside, are we Diety's attempt at what it believs perfection to be? Are we meant to be stewards or guardians of something if we are Diety's success? Or are we Diety's attempt at self-perfection? A complete self-contained ecosystem that is capable of running-and governing itself without the need of direct intervention (aka: religion), that we aren't yet? Or are we, not just physically, but spiritually as well, to Diety what physical life is to our souls? The only way for Diety to learn and experience?

I'm toying with another idea that I used in a short story I wrote forever ago out of boredom, and I'll mention it here, but even I don't take it seriously, so I don't expect anyone else to: Are all things Diety, in a very real sense? Every single spirit/soul living physical lives in one life-form or another, reincarnating repeatedly in whichever form it chooses based on what it wants to learn, and when it can't learn anymore, it joins with another that has done the same and fits with it perfectly, to become a different type of soul. Wash, rinse, repeat, with every soul, and as the ages pass, Diety is formed into what it once was, enriched with all that the various aspects of it have learned during its time of self-separation. I'm having trouble swallowing this one. The idea is too easy to comprehend for me to associate it with the numinous.

Something's just occurred to me, and I'm going to research it... More opinions? ^_^

Permalink Reply by Party Pooper on July 7, 2012 at 6:01pm

Does anyone else think that we're Diety's attempt at perfection?

There are other species of animal which were around long before us and are still on earth. This makes me think that, at the very least, a higher being did not intentionally start with us. Maybe we were a "happy accident".

Are we some sort of guides/guardians/stewards?

I don't think so, because I think we would have more control over our own destiny. We don't have any full control over life, it has control over us. For example, If someone was to walk up to a grizzly bear, tell it they want to hug it and that it shouldn't fear them for they are it's friend...see what happens. There are other people who have actually tried this, with other animals, because they feel they have special powers or feel they know how to predict animals. When they start bleeding on the ground everywhere screaming then they realize the flaw with their thinking.

http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/fatal-attractions/videos/kille...

http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/fatal-attractions/videos/big-c...

Permalink Reply by Mary Jo Fowlie on July 7, 2012 at 8:29pm

Oh my, I just realized what I'd been trying to do, and that it is literally impossible. I've been trying to explain this idea without the color of the human condition, and I can't do that without it making sense because I'm human. I can't explain it in a context beyond Earth, because my only experience is of Earth. Aw hell, this bites. I'm going to need to do alooooot more chewing on this, to where I at least stop giving myself a headache.

I'd suggest thinking outside the box, trying to avoid putting any limitations on it to make it easier to grasp, but I can't even do that yet. More chewing. ^_^

Didn't know where else to put this...

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