Does your tradition have an overarching purpose?

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Permalink Reply by WhiteSage on July 9, 2009 at 4:01pm

Thanks Arachneh, you are very good at explaining : ) Is it fair to say that the only safe assumptions that I should make when talking to a person belonging to a Wiccan coven (as opposed to a solitary Wiccan) are:

1)they worship either spirits, deities, or both
2)part of the ritual of this worship is to join energy as a group

and, beyond that, questions around who/what they worship and spellcasting are decided individually?

It's a complicated world out there. LOL. It's easier to sit in my kitchen and throw herbs at my cauldron. *Mumble, mumble boil and trouble... *

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Permalink Reply by Arachneh on July 9, 2009 at 5:44pm

Thanks Arachneh, you are very good at explaining : )

You're welcome, and I'm glad it's making sense to you --- I'm feeling very elliptical in my thoughts here. (Can't blame it on the Benadryl today; guess it's the coffee.) ;)

To be fair, though, a lot of this is pretty high-end philosophical stuff that most people don't ask about . . . we're kind of trying to come to a top-downward model, instead of a "lowest common denominator" approach, and that's cool. It just takes a little more brain function. :P

Is it fair to say that the only safe assumptions that I should make when talking to a person belonging to a Wiccan coven (as opposed to a solitary Wiccan) are:

1)they worship either spirits, deities, or both
2)part of the ritual of this worship is to join energy as a group

and, beyond that, questions around who/what they worship and spellcasting are decided individually?

That's pretty fair, I think (though strictly speaking, the spirits and deities could be symbolic on any number of levels; it's up to the understanding of the practitioner).

You could probably count these as basic common elements as well:

Wicca is a relatively new religion incorporating elements of folk tradition, agricultural celebrations, and mystery rites

recognizes the complementary duality, embodied by a Goddess and God, that informs creation (though it's up to the individual to work out what this "duality" actually is, or what it represents)

both celebratory (through the mythic seasonal/solar and lunar cycles) and personally transformative

originally initiatory, oathbound, and coven-based (modern variants may differ)

magical training typically includes Tarot and other divinatory practices, astrology (to an extent), Qabbalah (to an extent), magical and practical herbalism, magical correspondences relating to archetypes and elements from Western occult lore, gemstones, colors, sigils and symbols, units of time, etc., sympathetic magical techniques, and a fair amount of kitchen witchery

Oh, and because it's bound to come up (if not here, then somewhere else):

The Wiccan Rede is ethical advice to reflect on one's actions and their consequences, not a proscription (for starters, the term "harm" is deliberately vague)

The origin and validity of The Threefold Law is a matter of serious debate in the Wiccan community; seems it may have been added by Gardner to dissuade new initiates from zapping everything in sight

Magic is not seen in simplistic terms of "white/black" or "selfless/selfish" --- intention is key, circumstances matter

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Permalink Reply by WhiteSage on July 9, 2009 at 6:13pm

magical training typically includes Tarot and other divinatory practices, astrology (to an extent), Qabbalah (to an extent), magical and practical herbalism, magical correspondences relating to archetypes and elements from Western occult lore, gemstones, colors, sigils and symbols, units of time, etc., sympathetic magical techniques, and a fair amount of kitchen witchery

Holy Crap!!! I must be on the slow side: I'm 46 I started learning from my great-aunt when I was nine until she died about 10 years ago and I still learn from different people as much as possible. However, out of the above list I only use Tarot, herbs, and kitchen witchery (if we're talking about the same thing--and really the herbs are part of that), and after all these years I still feel like there is a huge amount to learn in those categories. I can't even begin to imagine taking all of that on.

Oh, and because it's bound to come up (if not here, then somewhere else):

The Wiccan Rede is ethical advice to reflect on one's actions and their consequences, not a proscription (for starters, the term "harm" is deliberately vague)


After reading a number of threads about the threefold law, I don't think I want to go there. But I appreciate that you brought it up. I also have an appreciation of Gardner trying to keep people who are just stretching their wings from wreaking havoc with themselves or others.

Magic is not seen in simplistic terms of "white/black" or "selfless/selfish"

Now here I have been under a misapprehension. I thought the Wiccan community only practiced "white magic". I had a rather unpleasant encounter with a woman who came as a guest to a herb group I belong to. She self-identified as Wiccan. The purpose of the group is to pool our knowledge about various herbs. We were covering one that has a number of possible dark uses. I believe in knowing the full range of possibilities when I work with herbs so I was questioning my friend about it in detail. I can only say that the woman freaked out, saying among other things that I was un-evolved for having any interest in the potential dark uses of the herb. Sigh!! When pressed she felt very strongly that what I did was "low-magic" and the "high-magic" of Wiccans did not allow for dark purposes. Sadly she never came back to the group so I wasn't able to learn anymore.

I really think life would be easier if everybody walked around with their belief system written out on a 3x4 card glued to their forehead.

Blessings.

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Permalink Reply by Arachneh on July 9, 2009 at 6:40pm

Holy Crap!!! I must be on the slow side

Oh, I doubt that! :D That's just the basic list of what we touch on at an elementary level; from there, an initiate will typically pick a "proficiency" (usually one of those skills, but not always) and advance their studies on their own or with teachers, as appropriate. I started with herbalism, as
I loved gardening anyway, then brought gemstone energies into it, then eventually went outside the coven to learn Usui/Tibetan Reiki, and there you go . . . it's a lifelong process, really, and there's always something new to learn.

Now here I have been under a misapprehension. I thought the Wiccan community only practiced "white magic".

Some Wiccans may personally believe that, but it's a fallacy, and definitely not a Traditional Wiccan viewpoint. I'm guessing the
"white magic" business came into the culture with the "white light" of the New Age movement, or after Cunningham and the popularization of the Craft. :P

I really think life would be easier if everybody walked around with their belief system written out on a 3x4 card glued to their forehead.

That's not a bad idea. ;)

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Permalink Reply by WhiteSage on July 9, 2009 at 6:43pm

Thanks Arachneh,
I think you've actually managed to clear up most of my confusion/questions? I really appreciate that you took the time to answer my questions and your patience in doing so : )

Blessings

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Permalink Reply by Arachneh on July 9, 2009 at 7:20pm

Not a problem. :)

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Permalink Reply by Gavyn in the green on July 9, 2009 at 6:46pm

Some Wiccans may personally believe that, but it's a fallacy, and definitely not a Traditional Wiccan viewpoint. I'm guessing the
"white magic" business came into the culture with the "white light" of the New Age movement, or after Cunningham and the popularization of the Craft. :P

This is reminiscent of the situation between Nimue and the new Merlin in The Mists of Avalon...whatever magic you act, know that you are tied to the consequences.

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Permalink Reply by Arachneh on July 9, 2009 at 7:21pm

I believe so, yes --- the transformer is inherently transformed.

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Permalink Reply by WhiteSage on July 9, 2009 at 7:50pm

whatever magic you act, know that you are tied to the consequences.

Hi Gavin, I was taught and I believe that it's not so much being responsible for the results of whatever spells I cast, but rather I'm responsible for choosing appropriate spells for my intent. In other words if I feel a need to banish someone from my household circle (I'm consciously using an unpleasant scenario to illustrate this point) I have several choices of spells to use ranging from a revulsion spell to something that could potentially cause real harm. To cause real harm when it is not necessary is an insult to my own craft and counterproductive to the idea of not stepping into another's space more than necessary, which is a major tenet of my practice: being responsible solely for me, mine loved ones, and mine space.

Does any of my blather resonate with your traditions beliefs about spellcraft?

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Permalink Reply by TwilightEmerges - the Non Pagan on July 9, 2009 at 12:26pm

The purpose of my witchcraft is to get me things that I want or need currently. Both very immediate and long term things, and they may not even be physical things that you can touch. -shrug- I'm kinda selfish in a way. :P

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Permalink Reply by WhiteSage on July 9, 2009 at 1:05pm

Hi TwilightBegins,
Thank you for sharing. Are you part of the Wiccan tradition?

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Permalink Reply by TwilightEmerges - the Non Pagan on July 9, 2009 at 1:07pm

Definitely not. I'm a non-religious witch. :D

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