This discussion relates to a friend of mine.
My friend, who owns a tattoo shop, recently got bitten by a bad spider and had to go to the hospital due to the infection spreading on his leg. Doctors were unsure what bit him, but put him on a steady stream of heavy antibiotics for a month. Here is what gets me.
His wife posts numerous times of facebook asking for their friends to 'donate' money, even want to start a fundraiser, to help pay for the hospital bill and antibiotics since they don't have insurance and have to pay out of pocket.
The problem arises when the friends posting are saying they wish they could help but aren't financially able to, his wife in return posts 'I cant believe his friends would let him down like this. You people can spend 5 on a pack of smokes, but can't give 5 to help his bill?'. This to me beyond ridiculous.
Where is the logic in this, if there is any at all? Why should a friend help pay a hospital bill because you don't have insurance? Is that other peoples fault? Should we feel guilt-tripped into helping financially?
My opinion is this: Your financial problem is yours alone. If you needed life saving surgery and needed money to pay for it, that is different to me and I would donate. But a spider bite? I can think of better ways to give my money, hungry children perhaps? People struggle every day to pay their bills, hell I have hospital debt up to my knees, but I never would think of asking my friends to help pay. NEVER.
I really want to hear some opinions on this.
Lol, The Great Depression isn't going very far back into history - it was within a money based society, so how can you determine if times were tough before money came into the picture? What I was referring to was the world before money was invented or moneyless societies, because those are the only valid comparison models in this respect.
And humans are nature, too, are we not, like a blade of grass or an urang utang? Or do you believe we may be separate from nature? But no, I'm not especially pulling humans aside especially to brand them as 'evil' in comparison to orang utangs or blades of grass. The comparison is yours to make, but it is in fact irrelevant. Orang utangs and blades of grass don't operate as conscious participants within a money-based society, so whether in fact they are 'evil' or not is missing the point again.
Also I think you're confusing your own/cultural perceptions of money with the actuality/reality of money as a system and how it operates in the world.
The actuality of it is that it is the means by which humanity is controlled. You are a slave to it, a consumer, because that is your function in this (money-based) society, i.e. to make money, spend it and pay your taxes, which keeps the system running. Otherwise the state wouldn't need to own you as a commodity - this is why you have a birth certificate and national insurance number, not because you're viewed as a unique individual, but as one of the billions of chattel who's purpose is to contribute to the money-based control system and to line the pockets of the elite that literally own the world, because they are major shareholders in every corporation in the world from pharmaceuticals to oil, and all can be traced back to the same elite bloodlines. Everything else as far as the state is concerned is secondary and irrelevant, like how much you care about your neighbor, unless it's profitable. That is the value system of the elite which controls society, and that is the model they wish us to follow, but the extent to which you participate personally is in it is down to personal choice and circumstance, and of course awareness of what it is in the first place.
So while you may choose not to believe this based on your own cultural beliefs and perceptions or how comfortable you want to feel about your own relationship to money, it doesn't change what it is and what it does. These are facts, which can be researched. If you look into the history of the Illuminati bloodlines, for example, you'll see how they started wars such as the French Revolution and the Napoleonic wars and controlled the rise and fall of stocks and share prices, how they used the media and created public discord through propaganda in order to make a profit, and this is an agenda which is basically a series of scams that has continued throught the ages, even before the Bavarian Illuminati group was formed as an elite construct that secret society that came into public awareness. These are facts based on written documents between Governments and members of the Illuminati families such as the Rothschilds, before governments became under their control via the banking systems they owned and controlled.
There are always two stories going on - the truth and facts of the matter, which is kept hidden or simply not publicised to protect the interests of the elite bloodlines - and the public perception of it based on mind control, propaganda, cultural conditioning and values, which in turn is internalised into models of self esteem, success, and purpose. Again, the extent to which people understand this is based on how educated they are about it. The information as well as probable solutions is all out there to be researched if people care to find out.
Interesting exchange...Please,Crystal can you list some or any societys in the world today or the past that have succeeded,excelled ,remained without some form of money and what they used as a bartering system? I know in one of the islands of Micronesia,ROCKS,were used as barter and exchange,that was "their money". Everyone here on pagan Space is entitled to their views,why we have such a large,vast and growing community. How one person sees something may not be how another sees it. we are all allowed our own opinions on the many different topics we discuss here. this topic for instance,I see as no absolutes. How one person sees,uses,works with money,controls it,is they way of doing it. I agree with Amanthu,however,thaty the absence of money ,period,is or never was a guarantee that there would not be evil in a society,because people STILL are imperfect human beings. there still will be loves,hates,wants,needs,hurt feeling,pay backs,ect......I do find this a fascinating topic...I thinlk I will add it to the mnain discussion boards.A Society Without Money and I'd enjoy your input on it,please.
Well, the topic appears to be controversial rather than just interesting, now, and gaining attention for possibly the wrong reasons, so I'm sceptical, Faerie Queen. But if you put it on the main discussion board, I would certainly have a look to see what came up that hadn't already, then I might be interested in joining in. But I'm not interested in repeating myself because I get bored with myself, too!
I agree with everything else you've just said. I would go further, however, and say that there are not only many opinions based on personal perceptions of it, but many layers to the subject itself, because of what is known and what is generally not as well known about it.
However, I don't know that it's my job to inform any more because the information is all out there, as I've said, and people can do their own research, but I believe that it's better to have an informed opinion, if you're going to have one at all, and that's where I'm coming from.
OK Crystal Starseed, you seem to take my comment very personaly. That's your choice. If your offended, or EXTREMELY passionate about something, please just say so rather than writting a book about how YOU KNOW how very wrong I am. You are not changing my mind on the topic and I am not getting into another loooooooooooooooooong rambling debate with you over money. You are running this topic into the ground.
It's ok, you can keep your opinion. I was having fun discussing with you at first, but now I feel your subject matter is getting a little too strange for my taste.
Have fun dictating a new Starseed educational dissertation on your theories conspiracy directed at ^this^ comment I have posted....or you could continue with announcing to yourself how wrong I am....or you can stomp your foot on the floor repeatedly and scream NO NO NO. Either way, I am skipping over to Celticlass's discussion.
Dear me, I'm so sorry you feel so offended, but my statements aren't meant as a personal attack. But I'm not taking it personally at all, so I don't know why you got that impression. It's just a discussion.
It's your choice how you react by what you read into my comments, like whether you even respond at all, and what you choose to do with the information I give you, but I haven't been deliberately offensive or broken the rules, and if I have I would certainly like to know.
Thanks for letting me know you aren't interested in the discussion any more. It was, after all a digression from the main point. My intention is to stimulate thought and look at things in a different way, but that's certainly not everyone's cup of tea.
Remember, a lot can be read into the written word that isn't there, which is the limitation of language, and it's possible to make huge assumptions based on where you believe someone is coming from when they may not be, just because of their style of expression. Friendships and relationships have ended through a wrong word in a text message, for example - this is always the danger with writing anything. So all I can do is maintain that my intentions are not to attack but to inform, and I'm not responsible for how others react to that information once it's out there, because that would be an unrealistic feat.
Just enjoy yourself, and don't take anything too personally because it's not worth it! Namaste.
I don't know if other people mentioned this, but you do know that infections can be deadly. It used to kill people all the time in the days before antibiotics. A broken bone used to be a death sentience because chances were high that it would get infected.
Anyways. The way I see it. Never give a loan to a friend. Chances are they aren't going to pay it back and that will be the end of the relationship. If a friend is in need of money either give it to them as a gift with no strings attached, or don't give them anything.
As for a money pool, I don't see anything wrong with this, people do this all the time for friends, family, co-workers whatever.
Personally, I would rather spend a couple hundred, or thousand, on a friend and not buy new clothes for a few years, but that's just me. IMO it's your friend's health. It's not a cigarette or something like that, and most insurance around here actually doesn't cover most hospital bills. The "personal responsibility" spiel needs to go away because buying a 'pack of smokes' really isn't worth it. Charity is a virtue, and friends, family and neighbors come first.
The whole idea of "hungry children" goes against the idea of community because we ought to look out for one another - for friends and neighbors, not some dude the next town over or their kids. In Africa and Asia, there's a concept of the "susu" - a rotating interest-free loan that goes from friend to friend where everyone puts in money. If you can spare money to buy an occult book (for example), you can spare money to help a friend out in a tight spot.
And this is the last one, I swear.
Jackie (his wife) has posted on facebook that she is out with his sister (who was also setting up a fundraiser for him on facebook) mandy (names have been changed) at a hotel downtown having drinks--leaving poor jim (again, not real name) at home alone. Upon further questioning from friends, she is having the time of her life after a very stressful week (understandable) and ordering margaritas by the pitcher. Em, whatever. Do I think this is kinda weird considering how she was so hard up for money last week, and now has money to blow on drinking out...yes. Do I care at this point? No, not anymore. I let jim know that I'm sorry he had to go through that and that I wish him a speedy recovery, and he said he's fine and is back at work tattooing again. So at least he is doing better than expected and is working again :)
HUGS to your pal JIM!! Jackie? Is doing exactly what she enjoys doing,apparantly......Hope all goes well for JIM,sounds like he can use all the good fortune he can get,honestly.....
The only peeps Id give money to are family, close friends and worthy charities (legit I mean).. I would NEVER give money to someone online or even ask for it myself..There Are ways to raise money with out asking friends..
I feel that depends on the friend. I have loaned money to friends in the past (several thousand) and got it back when they were able to pay me back....I have also loaned the same amount to another friend that refuses to pay me back. I have had to go thru small claims court, have the person arrested and their pay check attached in order to get what is mine...oh...and the court nicely added interest to this debt!
I'd say it is good to help those in need...I would do it again...but it would have to be someone I totally trust so as to avoid the drama I was drawn into before.
I've come to the conclusion, that loaning money to friends or family has to many variables. It alters the relationship. If I can't afford to give them, then I don't give. But, I never loan or borrow from friends.