Entitlement
OK, so something that was mentioned in the "Plastic Shaman" topic set me off, and I needed to do this as a separate entry... I'd like to see what people think, frankly, and see where we go wrong.
Those of us who are living in areas of modern "Western" culture have a problem... its called Entitlement. Entitlement is the notion that all things are open and free, and all you have to do is ask to be handed information because its all supposed to be open and free, right?
In magickal areas, I see people constantly saying things like "Spirit is free!" and "Spirit will call to whoever it will", and to be honest, I see them as a part of the same entitlement problem. Yes; I agree that spirit is free and that all sentient beings have the innate right to reach out to spirituality. That does NOT AT ALL equate to the practices, words, rituals, and secrets... those are made by people, NOT GOD, and are transmitted BY PEOPLE. You have the right to your spirituality... but if mine is oathbound or a tradition secret, you have no rights whatsoever.
What i -absolutely, utterly- disagree with is that this somehow equates to anyone having the rights to my hard work because they say "Spirit is for all". I did this work... its mine, and its my practice; that means no, you dont have the right to it unless you're willing to do the work as I set forth... if I take on a student, as long as they're willing to do the work, they can earn the information, but I am NOT simply going to hand it off with only a smile.
What I dont understand is where people assume that cultural and traditional secrets are any different... with the First Nations people, many of them have made it clear that access to their information follows traditional guidelines; that means its taught to their people. IE, if you want the traditions, you have to be one of their people... which can be done through adoption, frequently involving a move and some major life changes, but its the way in. Usually the ONLY way in.
BTW Wicca is the same; there are ways in... and once in, you have access.
Vodou is the same... there are ways in, and once in, you have access.
Australian Aboriginal Songweaving is the same... there are ways in, and once in, you have access.
The problem arises when people read a book and call themselves a traditional worker, or when people start selling ceremony that they do not possess the right to. ESPECIALLY with Native ceremony, it is NEVER for sale. NEVER. Its a tighter stricture than the one stating Traditional Craft is not for sale. (Please note the inclusion of the capitol T... I mean BTW, regular witches are NOT bound by that unless they CHOOSE to be, and that's not the argument here)
Seriously, check out NewAgeFraud.org; sign up, and participate in the forums. Would it surprise you that there are some people HERE that the native tribes have publically called fakes and plastic shamans? There are a few. Read the forums before you comment here on your idea of native ceremony... I'd like discussions with people who are genuinely informed. (Castaneda and Browne have both been called out as 100% fake by the First Nations people, just so ya know... as are most "teachers" of native spirituality)
There are set ways the traditions are handed down... and part of our cultures issues with Entitlement come in when -we- say "Oh yeah I respect them... but Im gonna do it anyway". We earn their hatred on a daily basis.
Just like my trad (Haitian Vodou) CANNOT be combined with another (Im welcome to practice whatever I want, but the Lwa MUST be saluted in their fashion on their time.. ie Im forbidden to call them up in a wiccan circle kind of thing)to try combining First Nations traditions with others is just plain disrespectful and culture-vulturing. They say it loudest... and it bothers me that the people who say they respect them are the very ones who block their ears and still do whatever they want.
Its disrespect, plain and simple... we are Entitled to NOTHING.
Thoughts?
Those of us who are living in areas of modern "Western" culture have a problem... its called Entitlement. Entitlement is the notion that all things are open and free, and all you have to do is ask to be handed information because its all supposed to be open and free, right?
In magickal areas, I see people constantly saying things like "Spirit is free!" and "Spirit will call to whoever it will", and to be honest, I see them as a part of the same entitlement problem. Yes; I agree that spirit is free and that all sentient beings have the innate right to reach out to spirituality. That does NOT AT ALL equate to the practices, words, rituals, and secrets... those are made by people, NOT GOD, and are transmitted BY PEOPLE. You have the right to your spirituality... but if mine is oathbound or a tradition secret, you have no rights whatsoever.
What i -absolutely, utterly- disagree with is that this somehow equates to anyone having the rights to my hard work because they say "Spirit is for all". I did this work... its mine, and its my practice; that means no, you dont have the right to it unless you're willing to do the work as I set forth... if I take on a student, as long as they're willing to do the work, they can earn the information, but I am NOT simply going to hand it off with only a smile.
What I dont understand is where people assume that cultural and traditional secrets are any different... with the First Nations people, many of them have made it clear that access to their information follows traditional guidelines; that means its taught to their people. IE, if you want the traditions, you have to be one of their people... which can be done through adoption, frequently involving a move and some major life changes, but its the way in. Usually the ONLY way in.
BTW Wicca is the same; there are ways in... and once in, you have access.
Vodou is the same... there are ways in, and once in, you have access.
Australian Aboriginal Songweaving is the same... there are ways in, and once in, you have access.
The problem arises when people read a book and call themselves a traditional worker, or when people start selling ceremony that they do not possess the right to. ESPECIALLY with Native ceremony, it is NEVER for sale. NEVER. Its a tighter stricture than the one stating Traditional Craft is not for sale. (Please note the inclusion of the capitol T... I mean BTW, regular witches are NOT bound by that unless they CHOOSE to be, and that's not the argument here)
Seriously, check out NewAgeFraud.org; sign up, and participate in the forums. Would it surprise you that there are some people HERE that the native tribes have publically called fakes and plastic shamans? There are a few. Read the forums before you comment here on your idea of native ceremony... I'd like discussions with people who are genuinely informed. (Castaneda and Browne have both been called out as 100% fake by the First Nations people, just so ya know... as are most "teachers" of native spirituality)
There are set ways the traditions are handed down... and part of our cultures issues with Entitlement come in when -we- say "Oh yeah I respect them... but Im gonna do it anyway". We earn their hatred on a daily basis.
Just like my trad (Haitian Vodou) CANNOT be combined with another (Im welcome to practice whatever I want, but the Lwa MUST be saluted in their fashion on their time.. ie Im forbidden to call them up in a wiccan circle kind of thing)to try combining First Nations traditions with others is just plain disrespectful and culture-vulturing. They say it loudest... and it bothers me that the people who say they respect them are the very ones who block their ears and still do whatever they want.
Its disrespect, plain and simple... we are Entitled to NOTHING.
Thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by bohemiangelnoire on -
Thank you for this post.I wonder what kind of responses you'll receive. I'll be watching this thread with interest.
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Permalink Reply by Maximusstormcrow with Meat sauce on -
Houngan, I completely agree with you... It is unfortunate it falls a lot of times on Deaf Ear's. On that note Keep on stressing it. Perhaps some will understand, and some you may get through to. But Expect a lot of people to despise you for it. And that would be the Entitled ones. Any way good post.....
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Permalink Reply by Houngan Matt on -
lol Im ok being depised. I dont need to be liked to be factually correct. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by bohemiangelnoire on
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Will these be the same ones who will be mad at this post but don't you dare try to claim say "Irishness" or "Scottishness" or they will start foaming at the mouth? If so, let me go get some popcorn, that's generally my favorite part.
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Permalink Reply by Maximusstormcrow with Meat sauce on
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Lamo! Perhaps Bohemia, and Houngan, I agree Being liked is not as Important as Truth.
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Permalink Reply by SIN on -
What ever happened to "You can be, what ever you envision yourself to be." Perhaps some people think they are entitled, but it seems to me that its no different than telling you can't study voudou unless you are Hatian.
Some people, just don't know what they are doing, saying, and teaching is rape - nor do they understand the disrespect for the original trad.
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Permalink Reply by Houngan Matt on
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Actually the opposite... after all, Im not Haitian; However, I went through the work required and have been adopted into Maude's spiritual family... even though Im not haitian, Im still one of her children and the relationship is reciprocal. If I break with her, I am no longer a Houngan until I go through the whole process again to be remade in another house as the Child of the presiding Houngan or Mambo; for the same value, Maude cannot break with me, as she is bound to me as a mother.
You -can- be whatever you want, on the proviso that you earn it. There's always work involved, real work, and especially within traditional frameworks it follows set patterns.
(So we're in agreeance... I wrote the above to answer the rhetoricals in your statements, not to challenge you)
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Permalink Reply by Maximusstormcrow with Meat sauce on
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That is Amazing Information. But I do not study Voudou, so I don't know that about it, because of lack of interest. But it sounds almost family orientated in a way..If you get a chance I would like to learn some more about it after this Discussion if you care to take the time?
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Permalink Reply by Houngan Matt on
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Its very family oriented... at its core its nothing more than working with your ancestors; bloodline, and family of adoption if you initiate. The Lwa are actually of secondary importance to the spirits of your own family.
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Permalink Reply by SIN on
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I hear ya, hence my 'Faux Indian' topic. This is the very reason, I take no issue with Native Americans who want to string up Plastic Shamans (or originators of any other Shamanic practice for that matter).
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Permalink Reply by Toadpipe: the Soylent Magi on -
I wonder if the people of Benin consider Haitian Vodou to be "just plain disrespectful and culture-vulturing."
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Permalink Reply by Houngan Matt on
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We dont claim to be from Benin; some of our spirits are, but the rest are from the Congo, Nigeria, Cote D'Ivoire, and the rest of west Africa; There are people though who go to Benin to compare, and everyone's on good terms. The diasporic traditions are direct descendants, though, so it deflates the argument.
Other trads, like Santeria and Candomble, that are more purely Yoruban-derived than Haitian Vodou, REGULARLY send people back and forth from Africa/Brazil/Cuba to make sure things are respectful and correct. (Its actually very cool... the number of people who go back and forth from Brazil to Benin to keep the channels open between Yoruban state religion and Candomble is a wonderful thing)
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