Entitlement
OK, so something that was mentioned in the "Plastic Shaman" topic set me off, and I needed to do this as a separate entry... I'd like to see what people think, frankly, and see where we go wrong.
Those of us who are living in areas of modern "Western" culture have a problem... its called Entitlement. Entitlement is the notion that all things are open and free, and all you have to do is ask to be handed information because its all supposed to be open and free, right?
In magickal areas, I see people constantly saying things like "Spirit is free!" and "Spirit will call to whoever it will", and to be honest, I see them as a part of the same entitlement problem. Yes; I agree that spirit is free and that all sentient beings have the innate right to reach out to spirituality. That does NOT AT ALL equate to the practices, words, rituals, and secrets... those are made by people, NOT GOD, and are transmitted BY PEOPLE. You have the right to your spirituality... but if mine is oathbound or a tradition secret, you have no rights whatsoever.
What i -absolutely, utterly- disagree with is that this somehow equates to anyone having the rights to my hard work because they say "Spirit is for all". I did this work... its mine, and its my practice; that means no, you dont have the right to it unless you're willing to do the work as I set forth... if I take on a student, as long as they're willing to do the work, they can earn the information, but I am NOT simply going to hand it off with only a smile.
What I dont understand is where people assume that cultural and traditional secrets are any different... with the First Nations people, many of them have made it clear that access to their information follows traditional guidelines; that means its taught to their people. IE, if you want the traditions, you have to be one of their people... which can be done through adoption, frequently involving a move and some major life changes, but its the way in. Usually the ONLY way in.
BTW Wicca is the same; there are ways in... and once in, you have access.
Vodou is the same... there are ways in, and once in, you have access.
Australian Aboriginal Songweaving is the same... there are ways in, and once in, you have access.
The problem arises when people read a book and call themselves a traditional worker, or when people start selling ceremony that they do not possess the right to. ESPECIALLY with Native ceremony, it is NEVER for sale. NEVER. Its a tighter stricture than the one stating Traditional Craft is not for sale. (Please note the inclusion of the capitol T... I mean BTW, regular witches are NOT bound by that unless they CHOOSE to be, and that's not the argument here)
Seriously, check out NewAgeFraud.org; sign up, and participate in the forums. Would it surprise you that there are some people HERE that the native tribes have publically called fakes and plastic shamans? There are a few. Read the forums before you comment here on your idea of native ceremony... I'd like discussions with people who are genuinely informed. (Castaneda and Browne have both been called out as 100% fake by the First Nations people, just so ya know... as are most "teachers" of native spirituality)
There are set ways the traditions are handed down... and part of our cultures issues with Entitlement come in when -we- say "Oh yeah I respect them... but Im gonna do it anyway". We earn their hatred on a daily basis.
Just like my trad (Haitian Vodou) CANNOT be combined with another (Im welcome to practice whatever I want, but the Lwa MUST be saluted in their fashion on their time.. ie Im forbidden to call them up in a wiccan circle kind of thing)to try combining First Nations traditions with others is just plain disrespectful and culture-vulturing. They say it loudest... and it bothers me that the people who say they respect them are the very ones who block their ears and still do whatever they want.
Its disrespect, plain and simple... we are Entitled to NOTHING.
Thoughts?
Those of us who are living in areas of modern "Western" culture have a problem... its called Entitlement. Entitlement is the notion that all things are open and free, and all you have to do is ask to be handed information because its all supposed to be open and free, right?
In magickal areas, I see people constantly saying things like "Spirit is free!" and "Spirit will call to whoever it will", and to be honest, I see them as a part of the same entitlement problem. Yes; I agree that spirit is free and that all sentient beings have the innate right to reach out to spirituality. That does NOT AT ALL equate to the practices, words, rituals, and secrets... those are made by people, NOT GOD, and are transmitted BY PEOPLE. You have the right to your spirituality... but if mine is oathbound or a tradition secret, you have no rights whatsoever.
What i -absolutely, utterly- disagree with is that this somehow equates to anyone having the rights to my hard work because they say "Spirit is for all". I did this work... its mine, and its my practice; that means no, you dont have the right to it unless you're willing to do the work as I set forth... if I take on a student, as long as they're willing to do the work, they can earn the information, but I am NOT simply going to hand it off with only a smile.
What I dont understand is where people assume that cultural and traditional secrets are any different... with the First Nations people, many of them have made it clear that access to their information follows traditional guidelines; that means its taught to their people. IE, if you want the traditions, you have to be one of their people... which can be done through adoption, frequently involving a move and some major life changes, but its the way in. Usually the ONLY way in.
BTW Wicca is the same; there are ways in... and once in, you have access.
Vodou is the same... there are ways in, and once in, you have access.
Australian Aboriginal Songweaving is the same... there are ways in, and once in, you have access.
The problem arises when people read a book and call themselves a traditional worker, or when people start selling ceremony that they do not possess the right to. ESPECIALLY with Native ceremony, it is NEVER for sale. NEVER. Its a tighter stricture than the one stating Traditional Craft is not for sale. (Please note the inclusion of the capitol T... I mean BTW, regular witches are NOT bound by that unless they CHOOSE to be, and that's not the argument here)
Seriously, check out NewAgeFraud.org; sign up, and participate in the forums. Would it surprise you that there are some people HERE that the native tribes have publically called fakes and plastic shamans? There are a few. Read the forums before you comment here on your idea of native ceremony... I'd like discussions with people who are genuinely informed. (Castaneda and Browne have both been called out as 100% fake by the First Nations people, just so ya know... as are most "teachers" of native spirituality)
There are set ways the traditions are handed down... and part of our cultures issues with Entitlement come in when -we- say "Oh yeah I respect them... but Im gonna do it anyway". We earn their hatred on a daily basis.
Just like my trad (Haitian Vodou) CANNOT be combined with another (Im welcome to practice whatever I want, but the Lwa MUST be saluted in their fashion on their time.. ie Im forbidden to call them up in a wiccan circle kind of thing)to try combining First Nations traditions with others is just plain disrespectful and culture-vulturing. They say it loudest... and it bothers me that the people who say they respect them are the very ones who block their ears and still do whatever they want.
Its disrespect, plain and simple... we are Entitled to NOTHING.
Thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Arachneh on -
Dude! Easy. Just say you're BTW. >;)
I should have kept track --- I could have published a coffee-table book by now based the lists of total bunk that virtual strangers have tried to tell me about myself based on that one identifier.
It's like a freaking funhouse.
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Permalink Reply by Herne on -
Umm... just curious..... what does BTW mean? I thought it meant "by the way" but based on context i assume it stands for something else in this instance.
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Permalink Reply by AlanHeartsong on -
In this context, BTW = British Traditional Wicca
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Permalink Reply by AlanHeartsong on
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Heh, if it makes you feel any better, I *am* one and had never heard/seen the acronym before coming to PS
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Permalink Reply by Arachneh on
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It's an unofficially issued new not-secret codeword.
What, you didn't get the certified letter and give the postman the requisite drop of blood? ;)
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Permalink Reply by Sunflower Witch on -
That, and Americans hate anything that reeks of exclusivity; it's an instant panty-wadder.
I really haven't seen the same attitudes about all of this from the UK or Europe.
That is so true. My experience of the folk who practice what we Americans call Asatru or Heathenism in Norway was a huge difference from how I experienced it here. Americans are "spoiled" - yes, yes we are. Not everyone feels entitled to have sacred knowledge dumped in their laps, but enough do that has weakened the Craft (et al) in many ways, and drove some serious-minded seekers away to study in solitary. The fact that so much has already been spilled out in literary form (and on Youtube!), makes it that much more difficult for groups dedicated to their Mysteries to enforce it.
Sadly, some have taken it too far to the other side and had the attitude of "ooh I have all the secret knowledge and you can't have it! neener neener! - Unless you join my group and do my bidding and blah blah blah". Can we say Jim Jones, Manson, etc? I think that contributed to people feeling that they -needed- to be given the goods up front so they were sure it wasn't a sham, and that morphed into feelings of being entitled to it. Maybe I'm way off course here, and that is surely not the case in total, but it has been a thought of mine in regards to this topic for some time.
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Permalink Reply by Royal on -
knowledge is not sacred....it is powerful but it is meant to be used and desiminated by everyone who will benefit from it...its more like a good sandwich than mana from heaven and thats the way it should be
I guess my brief foray into journalism is coloring my views but I am suspiscious of anyone who has secret handshakes and "is the only one who knows the truth"
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Permalink Reply by Zerynthia on -
Far from it - I have never smelled so much as a whiff of that kind of condescending crap from any legitimate pagan group. Methinks so many are drawn to paganism because pagans are very explicit that it isn't for everyone, there are many roads to Rome and that we have only found paganism to be true for ourselves. Most pagans are fond of saying, "Your mileage may vary!"
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Permalink Reply by Arachneh on
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Reply by Sunflower Witch on November 8, 2009 at 4:55pm
My experience of the folk who practice what we Americans call Asatru or Heathenism in Norway was a huge difference from how I experienced it here. Americans are "spoiled" - yes, yes we are.
Definitely, but in a belovedly . . . I dunno . . . American kinda way. On one hand it's a royal pain in the ass; on the other, it's the same stubbornness that powers innovation in other areas. I guess there's no escaping it. ;)
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Permalink Reply by JAMMINjordy! on -
Reply by AlanHeartsong 34 minutes ago
Matt, if you were geographically close enough, I'd drive over, bow down and worship your kneecaps just for this post alone.
Okay, keep it in your pants, Alan ;D
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Permalink Reply by AlanHeartsong on
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Hehe, would you believe that (for once) it was completely non-sexual?
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