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Pagan Utopia - If we could run our own country.

 

As far back as I can remember, the movers & shakers in the political arena have either been Jewish, Christian or Muslim. lets imagine a 'Utopia' where Pagans ran their own country, made their own laws and run their own banking & educational system. Do you think we would follow the way most Western countries have been run, or would we run it under our own system made up from scratch, throwing out everything that had been done before. For instance:

1. Although Capital Punishment has been banned in the UK it is still happening in some US States. Should we ban it all together?

 

2. Should state education be compulsory for children 5-16yrs old?

 

3. Should everyone home school to set standards, or do as we please with our own children?

 

4. Should we follow the Western way of banking where all banks should made a profit from our money, or should we do away with this system and replace it with-what?

 

5. Should we all have the same advantages for equal wages whatever job we did? Should a Company Director, responsible for a large team of people have the same wage as a Garbage Man?

 

6. Should Welfare payments be available if you don't want to work, or should everyone work in order to pay their own way?

 

7. I would not force the mentally or physically disabled to work, unless they wanted to. Or should everyone be treated equally, regardless?

 

8. Should we put a cap on how many children people can have, as they do in China?

 

9. Would we try to become self sufficient as a country and go without certain things we could not make or grow ourselves?

10. How would you raise Taxes? Or would you raise money for roads, rail etc. another way?

 

There are lots of other issues involved in running our Pagan Utopia, what things would you make law or is Total Anarchy, No Rules & Survival of the Fittest the best way to run it?

 

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Victor Night on June 16, 2012 at 12:30am

I prefer Imperial Rome

Permalink Reply by Barry J King on June 13, 2012 at 1:58pm

Only if I'm king.

Permalink Reply by Barry J King on June 13, 2012 at 1:57pm

Well, Pagans are so differing in their view, I do not believe utopia would be reached.

1. I think capital punishment should only be used in the case of serial killers/rapist or corrupt politicians.

2. No.

3. That should be left to the parents/guardians to decide.

4. Let market forces decide that.

5. No, let market forces decide that.

6. No welfare. If you are unable to work, well, that is what family & charity are for.

7. Equal.

8. No.

9. No.

10. Lottery & donations.

11. The only laws necessary would deal in protecting a person's right to life (can't go around killing folks for the hell of it), liberty (no kidnapping, assault or rape allowed) & property (no stealing). Also, contractual laws would cover the use of coercion (can't physically force someone into buying something) & fraud (you actually have to deliver on your promise/ oath). Other than that it is a free for all.

Permalink Reply by Vigdisdotter on June 16, 2012 at 12:58pm

6. No welfare. If you are unable to work, well, that is what family & charity are for.

Spoken like someone who has never had to use the system.

My father is still in dept (and will be for some time to come, even though he has a good job and works hard) three years after my mother's death.  And this is WITH social assistance and disability during her 16 long illness.  If there had been none mom would have died a lot sooner for lack of care and my father, brother and I would be out on the street.  That's hardly Utopian.

7. Equal.

I faced this idea in school.  I'm learning disabled.  My brain doesn't process information the same way other peoples do.  But the teacher declared that all students were equal and it would be UNFAIR to give me special consideration.  Unsurprisingly, I failed in abysmal fashion.

Equal would be giving everyone what they as individuals need to succeed and realizing that what "success" looks like for one person can be very different from the next.

Permalink Reply by Barry J King on June 17, 2012 at 12:50am

Spoken like someone who has never had to use the system.

Nope, spoken like someone that believes government shouldn't be playing a role in it. I don't believe in Utopia.

I faced this idea in school. I'm learning disabled. My brain doesn't process information the same way other peoples do. But the teacher declared that all students were equal and it would be UNFAIR to give me special consideration. Unsurprisingly, I failed in abysmal fashion.

What sort of school was you attending? While I've disagreed with you in some past discussions, I do consider you to be intelligent. You have learn things differently, I do not see that as disabled. I see that as being different. I use to earn my living as a private music instructor. I taught all types of people to play different instruments. I think your teacher was just to fucking lazy to do his job. It had nothing to do with treating you equally under the law.

Permalink Reply by Vigdisdotter on June 17, 2012 at 3:00am

Nope, spoken like someone that believes government shouldn't be playing a role in it. I don't believe in Utopia.

So you didn't actually answer the OPs question then.

What sort of school was you attending?

Public. "Learning Disabled" is the official designation.  But I do agree with you that "learning different" would be far more appropriate.

I have an half inch thick file on all my "learning disabilities" and that's from grade three up to college. It's a catch 22.  Without the designation and accompanying paper work, you can't access support services, but as soon as you have the teachers and support staff make all kinds of assumptions about you.  In my case I LOOK normal.  So they either look at the file and see "learning disabled" and assume I'm stupid.  Or they look at ME and assume I learn normally. 

That teacher (Grade 11 Social Studies) was by far the worst, but certainly not alone in her attitude.  In fact, in my school career, I had four teachers that were willing to work with me to help me succeed and two of them were special ed teachers.

Permalink Reply by Barry J King on June 17, 2012 at 10:31am

So you didn't actually answer the OPs question then.

Did you not read my opening statement? It was:

Well, Pagans are so differing in their view, I do not believe utopia would be reached.

You just helped prove my point. Thanks.

Public.

That explains a lot.

Permalink Reply by Vigdisdotter on June 17, 2012 at 11:49am

Did you not read my opening statement?

 

I did.  And since you don't think it could happen, there's no point in answering the "what would it look like" questions.  Which leads me to wonder why you did.

 

That explains a lot.

 

Seeing as Private wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole (I'd ruin their averages) it does...about many things.

Permalink Reply by Barry J King on June 17, 2012 at 11:30pm

I did. And since you don't think it could happen, there's no point in answering the "what would it look like" questions. Which leads me to wonder why you did.

Just because I do not believe utopia is possible, does not mean that I lack ideas of what I view as a better society.

Seeing as Private wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole (I'd ruin their averages) it does...about many things.

There is a lack of private schools period. The government here & I expect in Canada as well, has monopoly on education. Take government out of that factor & I believe there would be many more private schools competing for your business. Some of those would also be specialized for students who simply process information differently.

Permalink Reply by Vigdisdotter on June 18, 2012 at 3:03am

And given how it's been pointed out to you that you "suggestions" don't lead to a better society.....What's you're point?  Especially since you can't seem to conceptualize of "society" beyond the individual.

There is a lack of private schools period.

Not in my town or in Canada in general.  Up here they even get government subsidies so that they CAN meet the needs of learning disabled students.  There have been more then a few cases where it was shown that a student was refused admission because of learning disability which the school had accepted funding for.

But rather then start letting everyone who can afford it, they just use tighter screening processes now.

Your obvious hatred for all things government has blinded you to the very real problems of the "private sector".

Permalink Reply by Barry J King on June 18, 2012 at 1:08pm

And given how it's been pointed out to you that you "suggestions" don't lead to a better society.....What's you're point?

No, I was given opinions that it wouldn't lead to a better society. My point was that there would be so much disagreement that utopia is impossible. I don't seek perfection, just optimum freedom.

Not in my town or in Canada in general. Up here they even get government subsidies so that they CAN meet the needs of learning disabled students. There have been more then a few cases where it was shown that a student was refused admission because of learning disability which the school had accepted funding for.

But rather then start letting everyone who can afford it, they just use tighter screening processes now.

So, you guys are on a voucher system. That is interesting. It is one of the better of the compromising solutions. I view it as corporate welfare.

Your obvious hatred for all things government has blinded you to the very real problems of the "private sector".

Your obvious hatred for all things private sector has blinded you to the very real problems of the government.

Permalink Reply by Vigdisdotter on June 18, 2012 at 1:38pm

No, I was given opinions that it wouldn't lead to a better society. 

 

And now it's up to you show why it WOULD.  Especially in light of the points made.  That's how discussion works.

 

It is one of the better of the compromising solutions.

 

Not when kids are denied admission because of fear they would tank the schools averages.

 

It has less to do with the system (though no system is perfect and there can always be improvement) and more to do with the PEOPLE exploiting it.  This is why Utopia will never happen.

 

Your obvious hatred for all things private sector has blinded you to the very real problems of the government.

 

Not even close.  But go ahead, find the quotes in my posts to support that claim.  

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