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If you practice "magick" then maybe you can help me to understand. Too many times Ive had this question and the same response I get is "magick is as real as your belief in it" or "things are only real if you believe they are." To me, that means that magick is not real.  Let me explain. 

2+2+4.  

"well i dont believe that's true."  regardless to whether or not I give it power with my "beliefs" 2+2 is gonna equal 4.  No matter how much i think so or dont think so.  Its a fact.  Why is magick not a fact, and just a belief? if its really real, why does it only work when you think it will? To me, thats not valid enough.  If its really as real as practitioners claim it to be, then it should work whether I believe in it or not, you know? If i wanna cast a spell, my beliefs about it shouldnt matter. If its real, its gonna work.  "i dont believe cell phones can call people." give that person a phone and have them dial out lol its gonna work.  I know these are cheesy and simple metaphors lol but i hope you get what Im saying.  So can anyone explain this to me? because at some point i was really interested in "magick" but if my "belief" is the only thing that will give it power its useless to me.  I want to b turned into a believer. and if i dont believe then its powerless.  Well how does that help me to believe if i cant just see it for myself? mixing herbs and oils wont work unless you think so....well then that means it doesnt work.  

Someone please elaborate without judging my ignorance (as that will obviously be what it is to a "believer.")  I would like to be persuaded otherwise.  

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sorry, thats supposed to be 2+2=4.

Magic doesn't normally go against the laws of physics. It's defined as a pseudo-science, and it works for several reasons including, according to my text book "coincidence". I also think it being psycho-drama works out as well.

In a belief term, it's energy used to change a situation. That's the goal. It is a tool. It requires not religion.

When I say "belief" i wasnt speaking in terms of religion. I meant belief in "magick." It wont work unless you believe it.  That's my argument.  Its not real if thats the only way it works.  Its all in your imagination.  

I don't have to believe it to work for me. I've seen it work when I thought it was bull shit.

If you could, would you care to explain? Because Ive yet to see that in my own personal experience.

If you haven't seen me post a lot I am actually quite the skeptic and I have experimented a lot. There have been times in my experiences I thought something did not work, and it ended up that it did and ways I didn't think of.

Cautious of what?

Well, on the self-hypnosis side of things invoking such and not being trained or know what you're doing can have an adverse effect. As for the demons themselves, that depends on your beliefs. Either way, it starts internally whether an actual external source exists or not.

"Some of my colleagues go for satanism, I am a bit of a soft soul and please dont laugh but invoking demons, well I get scared sometimes when they talk about it lol "

great satire!!

i was freaked about the whole demon thing at one point too dark sapphire but i guess there is no reason to fear if its only your belief that gives it power :/

Great Satire? If someone fears something they fear it simple as! ironic humour?

its still sounding like it only works because of the belief.  

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