Should we believe in Right Hand Path and Left Hand Path?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tara Flower on April 14, 2012 at 3:19pm

Thanks for the reply,I agree that humans are a mixture while devic beings can make themselves into more of a pure force that leans all in one direction. So we are carrying around a box of contradictions while they have already made a choice.

However they can change their minds-I know a nymph girl who used to be interested in women looking good and being empowered, then she went over to the dark side and became interested in shopping addiction!

Also different faiths interpret their functions differently. The Moon Goddess is associated with people reincarnating to be with their loved ones again which is positive, yet in Buddhism for example it is supposed to be negative to be caught up in the wheel of rebirth.

Having said this, personally I have often felt pressured by those I am in contact with to choose work to do that is either positive or negative, and  to stick to that.

Permalink Reply by Tara Flower on April 14, 2012 at 4:45pm

Regarding clarification of my nymph,she doesn't go shopping herself LOL. She had a kind of attachment to a lady who worked in a shop,came with her from overseas.At first she used the connection to help women feel good about themselves.

Then she went on Left Hand Path and started trying to give them shopping addiction instead.Anyone who yielded would end up in an addiction clinic,it would be what the Christians would call temptation by a demon.

I just think if we do magic we may have to make the same choice, does it help someone or destabilize them, so do we want to do left hand or right hand?

Permalink Reply by Grand Mufti of Satanism (Troll) on April 14, 2012 at 6:44pm

Where the LHP modality becomes a problem is where it meets excessive social resistance (including censure, penalty, containment, or even death). Solidly adhering to what are general LHP standards might rationally be criticized, based on the phrase's original meaning, as sociopathological. As it has been legitimized in Western esotericism it appears now just to be representative of some generic individualism or to endorse a kind of odd neo-gnosticism.

Is it better to do positive magic or negative magic but not both? I'm unsure that this is sound excepting observation about a particular case. For example, it is usually psychosis-inducing or self-contradictory to work on someone to sweeten them to you while simultaneously tormenting them.

Permalink Reply by Becido Ethaniel on April 14, 2012 at 4:03pm

Should ? What means "should" ? I do not know that word ! LOL

Follow your feeling.

I do not believe that Magick, any Magick, is good or bad, only the intention of the Witch is good or bad.

)O(

Permalink Reply by Becido Ethaniel on April 14, 2012 at 4:19pm

The Grey Witch I am agree Rose :-).

I said "good" and "bad" to mark both opposite sides.

)O(

Permalink Reply by Tara Flower on April 14, 2012 at 4:16pm

I tried not to say 'good and bad', but you find yourself using something equivalent like positive and negative, because we all experience some things are beneficial to us and others hurt us.Like if you were tempted and got a shopping addiction it would hurt you.

Permalink Reply by Becido Ethaniel on April 14, 2012 at 4:22pm

Right Tara, meanwhile, I believe also that "good" and "evil" exists, not as entity, but some actions are definitively "good" and other are definitively "bad", no matter are the consequences.

)O(

Permalink Reply by Grand Mufti of Satanism (Troll) on April 14, 2012 at 6:40pm

These definitives are only so within a descriptive and relative context. The usual moral relativist objection is that there is nothing we can detect other than something proportionate and social (i.e. human reactions to what is being done) which allows such a firm identification.

Permalink Reply by Grand Mufti of Satanism (Troll) on April 14, 2012 at 6:25pm

The phrase "Left-Hand Path" (LHP) originates outside of Western religion and culture, but has been taken up as a descriptor by those endemic to Western esotericism as a counter-culture. You may or may not find it useful to employ these twin designations, and it is helpful to specify what is meant by them in part because, stripped away from their Indian origins, they are being used to represent very different things than what they at first meant.

The important term within this batch of characterizations is 'marg' or 'marga', which is translated as 'path' and yet which can carry along with it notions of style, approach, tack, or character, and in fact the Tantric origins of reference (left and right referring to ceremonial positions with respect to the male involved in it) distinguish this as a general methodology within that context. For example of its employment, there are myriad styles of Buddhism all ostensibly 'following the 8-fold path (Marga)' in varying, and sometimes quite contradictory ways to one another (e.g. allowing the eating of meat, or forbidding it, amongst numerous other controversies).

To thereafter presume, as some 'Western LHP' aficionados seem to, that these may constitute 'path choices' as of systemic or cultic distinction (rather than that systems or cults might have LHP or RHP features and facets) stretches the meaning of it and the signfiicance of it beyond easy recognition or believability.

To reply more directly to your statements, Tara, "no such thing as right hand path and left hand path" is quite reasonable insofar as they aren't consistently definitive. Certain groups may employ Right-Hand Path (RHP: conformist, dogmatic, hierarchic and individual-negating) techniques or doctrines. To associate either this or its opposing character (transgressive, antinomian, anarchic and individualist) with 'good magic' (often 'theurgy') and 'evil magic' (often 'sorcery'), respectively, is fairly outrageous in the extreme, though understandable as to why it might be maintained.

Religious and cultural cues tend to downplay the individual and promote herd-oriented or group/community/cultural values, and sometimes they do this by radical separation of attitude and demonizing. Ego-effacement in Asian cultures due to filial or national duty, for example, is sometimes contrasted as a moral virtue against Western (esp. American) enshrinement of individualism and 'the pursuit of happiness' (possibly at the expense of one's fellows and environment, such as in a heartless, capitalist economy). From such a perspective, conformist RHP is 'good' and trangressive LHP is 'evil', though only limitedly and relatively so.

These limitations and caveats do not stop people from taking the phrases out of context and re-applying them as whatever they like in identifying manners. They may now be expected to become 'LHP advocates' (inevitably, as 'RHP' is demonized, even if those who are doing it are replicating the worst forms of RHP character in their activities).

I'd like to understand how you might mean that any 'non-human entities {may choose to} base everything they do on LHP principles or character.' More often than not I note that insects (colony-orientation) and prey (herd or flock orientation) find real value in conformism, and even that predators (pack mentality) also take this route for advantage in survival. I don't notice that non-humans have morality, however, establishing some kind of 'orthodoxy' (which is what I consider the phrase 'RHP' to truly signify) in contrast with which one be identified as a 'heretic' or 'apostate' (doing things in the 'Wrong Way' as seen by such an orthodoxy).

With regard to your final question, no, we are not forced to choose between these modalities. We can, in whatever proportion, transgress against societal conventions and morals, on the one hand, while conforming on an individual level to the dictates, regulations, guidelines, conventions, or suggestions provided by the culture in which we dwell. No solid 'allegiance' is typically required outside of 'orthodox' cults which specify it as a feature of their membership admittance (say, agreeing to abide by the Rede as a Law in order to become a (conservative) member of a Wiccan coven or church; or agreeing to believe in a credal statement in order to be part of a Christian church, etc.).

Troll Towelhead, Grand Mufti of Satanism
http://www.satanservice.org/Troll_Towelhead

Permalink Reply by Tara Flower on April 15, 2012 at 2:48pm

I appreciate, Troll, that you have a very well thought-out response to the social implications of the terms  'Left Hand Path' and 'Right Hand Path', and their origins as part of tantra.

When I spoke of non-human entities I meant angelic beings who create environments on the astral plane,and their human followers who elaborate these environments with their thoughts into vast Heavens and Hells. We are drawn by affinity to a location which resonates with us, and our habitual dominant feelings and types of action are all part of that affinity. 

Which of these places we go to does imply a choice of how we want to be. Just like the Earth, the places of the afterlife  have social structures and people are expected to behave in certain ways. It seems to me that for magicians, whether you do white or black magic is very relevant when choosing your preferred sphere. 

I do realize I'm talking about dead people rather than living, and I don't mean to sound like one of those preachers who goes on about Hell!

Permalink Reply by Grand Mufti of Satanism (Troll) on April 15, 2012 at 11:00pm

Now I get it, thanks for clarifying! Fascinating. :)

Permalink Reply by Vigdisdotter on April 14, 2012 at 6:27pm

If it works for you, have fun.  I don't care for dichotomies myself so I don't use RHP and LHP classifications.

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