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Before the debate: 41% FOR 25% AGAINST 34% UNDECIDED After the debate: 36% FOR 55% AGAINST 9% UNDECIDED

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It depends on the strictness. I thin if they have to, if it came down to it, to kill to save people they would do that.

There are varying levels to Jainism in strictness. There is in Buddhism and Hinduism, too. Hinduism being the most lax of the three.

Xuc, do you remember Ganshmi from this forum? I think she's got a new user name now, too.  I remember she was a practicing Hindu, and one of the most peaceable people I've ever "met" online. 

I think it's the individual that makes a religion "of peace," rather than the religion necessarily being responsible for making the individual peaceful.

I don't remember that person.


I think it's the individual that makes a religion "of peace," rather than the religion necessarily being responsible for making the individual peaceful.

I agree. However, you're more likely to get peace from the adherents if the message is of peace. Religion is a largely human construct, so I agree with this overall that it really depends on the people.

I agree. However, you're more likely to get peace from the adherents if the message is of peace. Religion is a largely human construct, so I agree with this overall that it really depends on the people.

 

I don't know if I quite agree that you're more likely to get peace from the adherents if the message is of peace.  I think it's human nature to cherry-pick one's holy scriptures to find those bits one agrees with and those bits one chooses to interpret in one's own way.  Christians have been doing it for generations, despite the purported peaceful message of their Bible.

 

The Koran, like the Bible, has both messages of peace and of war.  The Muslims that I personally know choose to cherry-pick the messages of peace and apply those to their way of life.  I've no doubt that the Islamists cherry-pick the messages of war that they prefer, and ignore the rest.

 

It's funny, but I'm seeing more and more belligerent Christians these days cherry-picking messages of war and retribution and anti-gayness from their Bibles.  These also seem to be the same Christians who focus on such similar messages in the Koran when they want to make a case against Muslims in general.  I wonder why they find this stuff is okay in their Bibles, but not okay in the Koran?  :)

 

Hinduism, with its caste system and resulting devaluation of female children (particularly those of low caste), has been responsible for India having one of the highest (if not highest) number of female infanticides in the world.  As reported by Reuters and based on Indian government records, over 10 million girls have been killed by their parents over the past 20 years (since such records started being kept).  To find out more about the origins of this devaluation of women, I refer you to the Manusmriti, where it talks about Shudra (low-caste) women.

 

One could defend Hinduism by saying that the people in India committing crimes against females (and female infanticide is only one type of these crimes) are acting out of societal pressures rather than strictly following religious teaching -- and the Hindu religion does have many positive things about women, as well.  But then one could just as easily defend other religions in the same way. 

 

None of it changes the fact that, regardless of how closely human beings follow (or don't follow) their holy scriptures, they are going to do what they want to do and figure out some way to justify it later.

Oh yeah, the definitely do, Neph. And I notice the whole trend of Christians coming back, the conservative types, and this is probably due to our current political climate.

This is incorrect about Hindu caste system. First, I must explain that Hinduism has no core, which makes it different than Abrahamic religion. There are no "canon" texts. (There is also polytheistic, atheistic, monotheistic, and so forth Hindus.) There are even Hindus who reject the Vedas. Besides this, you have Shaktism where women are revered, this is the branch I belong to. (The Goddess is at the forefront.)

On the caste system, the current caste system is not Hindu based. The original Hindu version differs wildly than what we have now. The British is to blame for some of this. There are hundreds of designations and the original caste system was not this static discriminatory system it has become. I wouldn't even say the current system is 'Hindu' based, more cultural and there are Hindus who reject it. There's a few organizations working against it that are Hindu or Muslim based. (Buddhists also reject it.) Also, it plays in part with the Muslim tensions of the area.

It's a complex issue. I watched a documentary on it recently. I will see if I can find it later.

Islam a religion? well, it does have unique characteristics which make it more of a political philosophy...

Islam entails political control. It is a social system. It enforces, in its stringent forms, shari'a on everyone. In a Moslem-controlled society, you do NOT have freedom of religion.

Islam is best described (like Nicaean Christianity) as a imperialist cult of social control. Islam itself motivates conquests, enforces its own hegemony, and eliminates any competition.

Even in moderate times and places, under Islam women have an uphill battle just to be considered human. Purdah... smh.

It is very true that Christianity was once like this. But Christianity has evolved. Islam has not. Islam stifles creativity, intellect, culture, freedom. Good examples: check out how many Moslems have won Nobel Prizes in science. Now count the number of Jews...

Well folks debating this all is just fine ....  however there are the events in the real world.

To quote Patrick Henry famous speech ,,"Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace! But there is no peace."

Best of Luck to you All!!

   MarcusAgrippa1@aol.com

Humans are dangerous animals. The religion is irrelevant when measuring the capacity for violence.

 Reply by Nephele, Mistress of Names on August 14, 2016 at 9:08am

First of all, Izlam is NOT a religion.

 

Dave, Islam is a monotheist, Abrahamic religion.

 

Here are some more facts that may have caused you some confusion:

 

  • When Black people take black and white photos, they do not come out black.

 

  • Not all Jewish people "look Jewish."

 

  • Asian girls don't have "sideways vaginas."

 

  • Mexicans don't eat flower tortillas.

 

  • Puerto Ricans don't speak "Mexican."

 

  • Catholics don't worship the Pope.

 

Hope that helped to clear up a few things for you.


Islam is a socio-political framework and judiciary system with a monotheistic, abrahamic religious component.

Also note:
When a muslim declares that islam is a religion of peace, he is either ignorant of the qur'an or is deceitfully (taqiyya) thinking of this ‘peace’ as it applies only to those within the muslim community. (According to the qur'an Surah 48:29: "Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah.  Those who follow him are merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers."  Surah 9:5: "Kill the Mushrikun (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush..." Also see Surah 9:29:  PICKTHAL: "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture (Christians & Jews) as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.")  Remember, there is NOT a single verse in the Old or New Testaments that contains this command to kill unbelievers.

Remember, there is NOT a single verse in the Old or New Testaments that contains this command to kill unbelievers.

 

Spare me your cultural virtue signaling and try reading your bible sometime.

And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

 -- Numbers 31:6-18

 

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

 -- Deuteronmy 13:6-15

 

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;

Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

-- Deuteronomy 17:2-5

 

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

-- Matthew 10:34

 

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

-- Luke 19:27

Reality check folks.

     Friday 4 dead in Stockholn by a truck attack.

     Today Palm Sunday in Egypt  -- 2 attacks - 40 some dead.

I may be not eloquent on the topic like some.  But the real world speaks.

Maybe some can click their heels together three times and wish very hard -- "Islam is a religion of Peace"  -- However the facts of what is happening seems to show a different reality.

Reality check folks.

     Friday 4 dead in Stockholn by a truck attack.

Reality check indeed:

The 39-year old Uzbek perp had applied for asylum in Sweden and not gotten it. He was about to be deported. 


Want to talk about all the reasons that he'd rather kill himself than go home? A disappointed and probably furious man had had his dreams of a better life in Sweden crushed.  What do some men in that situation do?  Lash out?  Yes, they do. 

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