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Before the debate: 41% FOR 25% AGAINST 34% UNDECIDED After the debate: 36% FOR 55% AGAINST 9% UNDECIDED

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Oh yeah, the definitely do, Neph. And I notice the whole trend of Christians coming back, the conservative types, and this is probably due to our current political climate.

This is incorrect about Hindu caste system. First, I must explain that Hinduism has no core, which makes it different than Abrahamic religion. There are no "canon" texts. (There is also polytheistic, atheistic, monotheistic, and so forth Hindus.) There are even Hindus who reject the Vedas. Besides this, you have Shaktism where women are revered, this is the branch I belong to. (The Goddess is at the forefront.)

On the caste system, the current caste system is not Hindu based. The original Hindu version differs wildly than what we have now. The British is to blame for some of this. There are hundreds of designations and the original caste system was not this static discriminatory system it has become. I wouldn't even say the current system is 'Hindu' based, more cultural and there are Hindus who reject it. There's a few organizations working against it that are Hindu or Muslim based. (Buddhists also reject it.) Also, it plays in part with the Muslim tensions of the area.

It's a complex issue. I watched a documentary on it recently. I will see if I can find it later.

Islam a religion? well, it does have unique characteristics which make it more of a political philosophy...

Islam entails political control. It is a social system. It enforces, in its stringent forms, shari'a on everyone. In a Moslem-controlled society, you do NOT have freedom of religion.

Islam is best described (like Nicaean Christianity) as a imperialist cult of social control. Islam itself motivates conquests, enforces its own hegemony, and eliminates any competition.

Even in moderate times and places, under Islam women have an uphill battle just to be considered human. Purdah... smh.

It is very true that Christianity was once like this. But Christianity has evolved. Islam has not. Islam stifles creativity, intellect, culture, freedom. Good examples: check out how many Moslems have won Nobel Prizes in science. Now count the number of Jews...

Well folks debating this all is just fine ....  however there are the events in the real world.

To quote Patrick Henry famous speech ,,"Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace! But there is no peace."

Best of Luck to you All!!

   MarcusAgrippa1@aol.com

Humans are dangerous animals. The religion is irrelevant when measuring the capacity for violence.

 Reply by Nephele, Mistress of Names on August 14, 2016 at 9:08am

First of all, Izlam is NOT a religion.

 

Dave, Islam is a monotheist, Abrahamic religion.

 

Here are some more facts that may have caused you some confusion:

 

  • When Black people take black and white photos, they do not come out black.

 

  • Not all Jewish people "look Jewish."

 

  • Asian girls don't have "sideways vaginas."

 

  • Mexicans don't eat flower tortillas.

 

  • Puerto Ricans don't speak "Mexican."

 

  • Catholics don't worship the Pope.

 

Hope that helped to clear up a few things for you.


Islam is a socio-political framework and judiciary system with a monotheistic, abrahamic religious component.

Also note:
When a muslim declares that islam is a religion of peace, he is either ignorant of the qur'an or is deceitfully (taqiyya) thinking of this ‘peace’ as it applies only to those within the muslim community. (According to the qur'an Surah 48:29: "Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah.  Those who follow him are merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers."  Surah 9:5: "Kill the Mushrikun (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush..." Also see Surah 9:29:  PICKTHAL: "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture (Christians & Jews) as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.")  Remember, there is NOT a single verse in the Old or New Testaments that contains this command to kill unbelievers.

Reality check folks.

     Friday 4 dead in Stockholn by a truck attack.

     Today Palm Sunday in Egypt  -- 2 attacks - 40 some dead.

I may be not eloquent on the topic like some.  But the real world speaks.

Maybe some can click their heels together three times and wish very hard -- "Islam is a religion of Peace"  -- However the facts of what is happening seems to show a different reality.

Reality check folks.

     Friday 4 dead in Stockholn by a truck attack.

Reality check indeed:

The 39-year old Uzbek perp had applied for asylum in Sweden and not gotten it. He was about to be deported. 


Want to talk about all the reasons that he'd rather kill himself than go home? A disappointed and probably furious man had had his dreams of a better life in Sweden crushed.  What do some men in that situation do?  Lash out?  Yes, they do. 

Nephele

   I had suggested that we halt political posts by general agreement.  However since you and your people seem to want it to continue - so be it.

Islam is a socio-political framework and judiciary system with a monotheistic, ...religious component.

This is also true of Christianity and Judaism, which is why both religions find it very easy to form theocracies.

Hinduism is a socio-political framework and judiciary system (currently subsumed under a British common law structure) with a polytheistic, …religious component.

It has formed theocracies in the past and will likely do so in the future. The Ancient Romans tolerated the theocratic religions of their conquered neighbors, but “new” religions, without a government component, they ruthlessly suppressed. While I love what Battlestar Galactica did with the monotheist threat, in reality you can’t trust any human to be peaceful. Just ask the Cylons. :)

Just to balance the argument. Last year we had at least one Atheist terrorist attack. Though the police claimed it was a dispute over a parking space, the killer, an avowed atheist, explicitly said he was tired of his victim’s proselytizing. This year we have Joseph A. Jakubowski sending an anti-religious manifesto to the Orange POTUS, stealing weapons, and scoping out a church. While the reports don’t actually specify Jakubowski’s beliefs the term “anti-religious” is a good hint.

In the voice of Yoda: Religion not make people violent; people make religions violent.

I retract my original comment. Maybe because I have been involved with India and Hinduism a lot more lately, but Islam is NOT a religion of peace. It needs reformation.

I mean how can it be when people are murdered, even in first world nations, over depicting the prophet? South Park still has issues with their portrayal of Mohammad, years later. They showed Buddha snorting coke in the same episode, and no one cared. But gawd forbid they depict the prophet! Fuck that shit. No one is under obligation to please your delicate religious sensibilities.

Then there was the whole, and still on going, war in liberal circles. There's people such as Ben Affleck actually, seriously saying, that legitimate criticism of Islam as we do with Christianity, is "Islamophobic". No, while there are people who are that way, we should stop using this as a way to shut down people who don't agree with us.

Let's exclude the Koran, has anyone actually seen screen shots or actual footage from MEMRI? (They document all Middle Eastern programming.) These people are raging with violence over any dissent. I won't even get into Wahhabism, which while not the same as ISIL, is a terrorist philosophy that originated in, yep, you guess it, Saudi Arabia where many of our fine extremists come from. It's centuries old, too.

Then there is the history of Islam, Mohammad himself? Probably a pedo, definitely a murderer. Moghul empire, probably the biggest unspoken genocide in the world in which millions of Indians were raped and killed for resources, using Islam as justification. It's one of the reasons India has never recovered. (Other than the British who merely took over what was already there.) They ruled for a thousand years. If you read excerpts from Muslims from back then it's pretty much the same as ISIL justification. Now ISIL is fucking up Asia, as seen recently in the Philippines.

It doesn't even stop there, the state of Kashmir (India vs Pakistan) is an on-going war since India gained independence and it's because of the Muslims. (If you don't know why Pakistan exists, Google it. It's an Islamic state. India has it's problems, but they are secular government.)

So no, I do not buy the whole "religion of peace" crap. Even moderate Muslims can be awful. The dude responsible for the Orlando night club shootings had a father who is religious, even though his father did not condone the violence, he still made it a point to speak out against gays.

If you read the Quran, it's real easy to see where these bad ideas started from.

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