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I have recently been thinking about the Minoans and their society which was believed to be Matriarchal in nature, a Goddess centred society. It has been suggested that there has never been a Matriarchal society of any kind throughout history.

My question would be what would the benefits be to men living in such a society, why would they invest their time and energies in such an arrangement?

This was the first sophisticated society in Europe during the Bronze Age, the Minoans who were essentially Arms dealers trading in bronze spears and swords of exceptional quality, and in high demand throughout the Mediterranean. They were the hunter gathers of old Europe, who worshiped the Goddess, and when they turned to farming the Goddess continued to be worshiped, although now with farming this would have led to an increase in population, and yet you don’t find chieftains in control of the island of Crete. No monuments to great Kings, and their exploits.

If Minoan men still valued cooperation left over from their Hunter gather days, and wanted to concentrate on developing their society by working on mining, ship building, sailing, arms manufacture and urban construction, how would they govern their communities and perhaps the island as a whole without placing any one man above the rest?

As a natural consequence, it would have been obvious that women, who run households, care for children, plan, and allocate resources within the family would have found this a natural extension of their skill sets to do this activity, and run the community as Administrators, and lasted until the end of the Bronze age, and the disappearance of the Minoans.

After the fall of the Minoans, it would be a long time before we would see this kind of cooperation among men until the advent of Democracy, which is a capitalist based system of governance, with men working together by being paid money to do so, and in constant competition with one another. Are men happy today, earning more or less money than each other, with their giant Televisions and Cars as a distraction, praying to a God or none at all, which are all essentially male dominated?

Does this really satisfy men today; do they have and know their true purpose in the world?

On Crete, women were also in charge of running the Goddess religion they found themselves to be at the centre of. In Minoan spirituality, a Priestess would wear a long dress with an open top, baring her breasts, as this is the focus of her religious beliefs, as a ‘Breast centred Goddess Consciousness,’ the ‘Sacred Breast,’ to commune with and pray to the Goddess, and also as the conduit to the Goddess, allowing men to commune and pray to the Goddess by making a deep sensual connection with their partners.

The writer Sophie Bashford says - For a woman to open up to her immense, natural sexual fullness she needs to trust a man with her heart, soul and sacred feminine core.~

She needs to feel that he recognizes that she is goddess in incarnate form. He needs to recognize that the core of him - his masculinity - is deeply nourished by the spiritual feminine and that it is only through surrender to this sacred Shakti force that he can become the man he yearns to be (and the world most needs)….

Bashford, is essentially making the same point as the Minoan Priestesses that a man is deeply nourished by the spiritual feminine of the Goddess within a woman, and what men sadly lack in our world today.

Is this what makes a Matriarchal society of value to men. To be free in the pursuit of knowledge, skills, and purpose, while at the same time finding a deep fulfillment within the Goddess through her living representative’s on Earth, as Administers, and as Priestesses of the Goddess.

In this society all are playing to their strength both Material and Spiritual.

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"In fact, the whole argument that a matriarchal society might somehow be superior to a patriarchal society is based on romanticized notions of men and women in general."

Well said , Nephele...

This has been my position all along...

And I have not seen anything presented yet in this thread ,

which shows any evidence of a matriarchal society being better...

Let alone I have not seen anything at all presented , which could be

substantiated as a society existing as the "Minoan" culture...

As I posted before , "Minoan" is a manufactured name , as far as I have

seen , referring to a King Minos...if I am wrong , I would appreciate seeing

that , just to start with...

Then , solid evidence regarding the matriarchal society , and it's success ,

not just some hearsay , or invention by feminists minds...

I would be happy to read it if this evidence were presented in a respectful

manner , to back up historical claims...sex teachers do not qualify as authorities

in this regard...;)

Who is this Sophie Bashford ?

What qualifications does she have regarding the

Minoan culture ?

Further , I truly question this statement :

"In Minoan spirituality, a Priestess would wear a long dress with an open top, baring her breasts, as this is the focus of her religious beliefs, as a ‘Breast centred Goddess Consciousness,’ the ‘Sacred Breast,’ to commune with and pray to the Goddess, and also as the conduit to the Goddess, allowing men to commune and pray to the Goddess by making a deep sensual connection with their partners."

Exactly where is evidence to this assertion , other than statues and possibly frescoes , which may be interpreted a variety of ways...is there solid proof or

is this wishful conjecture ?

And who's conjecture and assertion , if it is just that ?

Meridian's , or someone else ?

What are their qualifications ?

Remember in this thread , it sure seems historical claims are being made ,

which lead to the O.P. question...

"In Minoan spirituality, a Priestess would wear a long dress with an open top, baring her breasts, as this is the focus of her religious beliefs, as a ‘Breast centred Goddess Consciousness,’ the ‘Sacred Breast,’ to commune with and pray to the Goddess, and also as the conduit to the Goddess, allowing men to commune and pray to the Goddess by making a deep sensual connection with their partners."

Exactly where is evidence to this assertion , other than statues and possibly frescoes , which may be interpreted a variety of ways...is there solid proof or

is this wishful conjecture ?

I sounds like the newest fetish, Adult Breastfeeding.

"I appreciate your point that the things you buy with your hard earned money are worthwhile in themselves"

Good, if we wish to better understand where I'm coming from, look into self ownership.

"but
the Minoan culture did survive the eruption for 150 years afterward until they left to go elsewhere."

Yea and where are they now?

"They were not governed by Warlords,"

They were on an island, until naval war tactics advanced, why would they need any war leaders?

"and there were no great Kings,"

King Minos?

"they managed without them by cooperating with one another."

Do you think this is the only example of people cooperating with out strong arm governance?

"I'm surprised you think so? I learned of a story in the 1990's from a British actress, Fiona Fullerton (a Bond girl) who was a board member on a Charity, and the first time she met the board she was a Brunette, and she made some suggestions, which were well received and considered. Her work took her to a role where she had to dye her hair Blonde, and the next time she visited the Board to discuss the Charity, she says the meeting could not have been more different, as she was essentially ignored the whole time, and nothing she suggested was considered, and it wasn’t as if this was the first time they had met her. She dyes her hair Blonde, and voluntarily agrees to lower her IQ."

Haha, sexism isn't the only form of collectivism out there. She should've worn glasses, that would've raised her IQ. This stereotyping is what I refer to as 'hairism'. Surely, you've heard dumb blonde jokes? The jokes are really dumb. Have you not heard that red heads are hot tempered and hot in bed? Or blondes have more fun? Your example doesn't sound like sexism, it sounds like hairism.

"I'm not sure why you think I'm talking about Atheism, male dominated or not?"

It is in your OP (I'll underline it, so, you'll see what gave me the impression):

"praying to a God or none at all, which are all essentially male dominated?"

By capitalizing the g on the word god, tells me that you are talking about monotheism. The "None at all", would suggest that you were including atheism.

"My question is what makes a Matriarchal society for lack of a better word, a Goddess centered religion of value to men."

Yeah, this is where we're likely going to confuse each other the most in our communications, you use group think, whereas, I am more concerned with individual needs. So, my answer is that is up to each individual man to decide of what value your particular religious beliefs are and if whether or not they meet their individual needs. 

For me, the answer is no and not because of the male vs. female thing (as I consider myself to be a priest of two goddesses and only one god), but, because, your view appears monotheistic or at least monist. Whereas, I'm more of a polydeist with a sprinkling of animist views. Again, it was you capitalization of the g in the word goddess.

Also, matriarchy is a society dominated by women. I don't wish to dominate or be dominated by anyone.

"Do you think the Warlords have gone?"

No. Do you think only men are capable of war?

"They have simply being replaced by CEO's of Multinational corporations, who don't hold you captive by the sword, they now hold you to ransom for your paycheck every week while you do their bidding."

I've quit more jobs than I've been fired from and I'd say nearly half of my life, I've been self employed. If you're a prisoner, it is by your own choice.

"The giant Televisions and Cars are a distraction to make you feel that this system is worthwhile."

If you allow your life to evolve around entertainment.

"Which I believe is to be free in the pursuit of knowledge, skills, and purpose, while at the same time finding a deep fulfillment within the Goddess through her living representative’s on Earth, as Administrators, and as Priestesses of the Goddess."

It is important to remember, that belief is a strong opinion. I have beliefs as well, some of which, are based on facts as we know them.

With that said, what about transgendered men are they representatives of your "Goddess". What about transgender women? What about all of the other in between? Where do they fit in this system of yours?

"and there were no great Kings,"

King Minos?

King Minos hasn't been proven to be a historical character.

True , Aurelia...

I could tell you it comes from the code I teach ,

yet I could not "prove" that...and that does not matter...;)

However , as I understand it , Sir Arthur Evans , named the

Minoan civilization after such name , referring to King Minos...

So , unless that information is wrong...we have a civilization

named after a King who might be fictional , or historical...

So , on one level it does at least apply to the conversation...

It is always interesting where mythology and history meet...

However , as I understand it , Sir Arthur Evans , named the

Minoan civilization after such name , referring to King Minos...

That's exactly what he did.  Interestingly, the Ipuwer Papyrus from Egypt is interpreted as calling the people from Crete "Keftiu"

"and with the oil of which [chiefs] are embalmed as far as Keftiu? They come no more;"

 

So possibly, the Cretans called themselves something similar to that word.

There was a Minoan Brotherhood which was a form of wicca for gay men.

But that hardly falls under matriarchal.

Well as this is my first Discussion point on a site like this, not being a professional writer, I can see perhaps it would have been better to have just asked the question, rather than advocate a conclusion of my own as well, as it raised other issues as well, that complicated the question.

Thank you for your points of view, it has given me a lot to think about, as to how I will present this in the future which was the aim of the discussion, and test the principle.

Thanks for hearing us , Meridian...

Please take this well when I say that took a good soul to see that

and acknowledge it , and I would hope we can all have a more civil

conversation in the future...

I do believe your intent at heart was good...we all need a more

workable society , whether in the bigger picture of the world ,

or the microcosm of Paganspace !

You've done well.

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