Prudish Pagans?!

Hey guys, here's a fabulous topic for discussion: can one be a serious Pagan in spite of sexual hang-ups and the erotic nature of the Old Religion/s and the celebrated gods? I introduced the idea of fashioning phallic cakes and yoni-shaped cookies* for both a public Beltane event (one of my very favorite Sabbats), as well as a more private Coven ritual at my own expense. However, I was shot down by everyone even remotely involved. The men were phenomenally uncomfortable either eating anything anything even remotely phallic- or vulva-like, and one woman said that she would refuse on principal, unless such phallic cakes were being served at Bachelorette Party (which she seemed to imagine was the only appropriate a venue!). I swear, this must be a purely American attitude! Serve us right for letting Puritans colonize, and then allow the Religious Reich to hijack our culture! Does anyone have any ideas about how this situation might be best resolved for my local community, and the larger Pagan community in America? My very dear friend--the woman of whom I spoke--brought to my mind an important note of irony, however: it is well-established how bawdy the Bachelorette party can be, when the Sabbats all must express a similar note of frivolity rather than having distinctively sanitized Sabbats all for the sake of being PC. Why, even our own secular holiday celebrations are absolutely tame when compared with those from the conservative Medieval period with lecherous debauchery! They should be, and were probably intended as, a festival filled with laughter, delight, and ecstasy...themes that are sorely lacking on most of our present Pagan celebrations.

I must wonder what the impetus may be for this staunchly puritanical behavior! The body and the procreative organs are not something "dirty" or "naughty" and subject to censorship. hell, even the Gardnerian Charge of the Goddess (thanks to the fabulous Doreen Valiente--my personal hero!) proclaims, "All acts of love and pleasure are my rituals". So, why not celebrate this much more visually? Would it really be so bad, or truly regarded as offensive to the Pagan masses? And, if so, should they really be calling themselves "Pagan"?

Now, to see it from the other side of the fence, one might argue that phalloi have no place in ritual because they might: a.) ensure the harassment of the non-public public or officials. But, why should we follow their "guidelines" to such an extent anyway, when our views are clearly quite different? b.) we have to protect our children from unseemly images, because they may pervert their minds! However, I have it on very good authority that children grow up with a very healthy attitude towards their bodies and sex in general when exposed to such imagery. Hell, the whole, "we have to protect" so-and-so seems to fail when you take progressive European attitudes into account. Amsterdam, for instance, has a very famous red-light district (now a popular tourist attraction) where the prostitutes stand in glass windows advertising their "wears". Even ancient children would have been keenly aware of such imagery: the ancient Romans plastered the phallus over many doorways and wore it as an apotropaic amulet; and living room frescoes were also painted with erotic murals. So, what's wrong with my suggestion? And, why doesn't America seem to want to embrace other cultural identities in favor of socially conservative (read: "repressive") ends?

A few years ago I was speaking with a friend, a Pagan artisan, who was commissioned to fashion a life-size images of pan in which he used his own body (well, MOST of it! *G*) in order to sculpt the image. Obviously, because it was an image of Pan, he gave Him a fabulous (and HUGE) phallus! From the photos that I saw (this took place in a very large Midwestern Pagan gathering) the image was surrounded by offerings of all kinds, including ribbons tied about His "godhood". However, a group of women stormed to the camp-site of the folks who were on the board of the event, and demanded it be removed because it was "indecent"! What??? A phallic image of pan is "indecent"? Somehow I highly doubt that a nude image of a Goddess would have been criticized by them. And, how could these women not have understood the gravity of their request? The God, Himself, would have definitely been offended at their remark! yet, all-too-often i see images of the Horned One 9either commercially or in art) where he is distinctively neutered (even Classical reproductions). I also doubt, somehow, that these same women would have demanded that Michaelangelo's "David" would have been removed. So, why single out the phallus, and Pan? Is there something about the phallus that they cannot bring themselves to respect? Heck, I also wonder if men in refusing phallic cakes are doing so, perhaps, out of respect for their Pagan sisters? Yet, the Sabbats (particularly Beltane) is the time to break loose and bring your "Younger Self" (as Starhawk might have put it) out to play. I can absolutely see my brother or dad making some delightfully lewd joke at Beltane, or even taking the phallic cakes and wagging them about their belt-line in mirth, or with a wink. This is precisely the behavior that I expect of my Pagan brothers at Beltane. So, get in touch with your inner-Pagan male, guys! Indeed, I want to see far more phallic-worship as an expression of contemporary Pagan rituals.

It also bothers me, terribly, that by treating (especially) the phallus as taboo we are sending the wrong message which might reinforce a negative male body image for my/our Pagan brothers (even kids). Another reason why I believe that the phallus, in particular, is so taboo is because it might shatter our dewy-eyed or idealized image of who or what children are supposed to be or will become, regardless of the fact that they are animals just like us. After all, is teaching children about the phallus and vulva as sacred objects of veneration and praise and what these anatomical parts actual do in the act of creation (remember the original Wicker Man?) so different from Catholic catechism lessons where children are indoctrinated into believing that a wafer and a sip of wine literally become the flesh and blood of a long-since dead human being once it hits their tongue? I think that "cannibalism" is a lot more of a taboo than sex and the anatomy!

* Oh, and I was going to make some phallic-shaped cookies 9with white icing in all the right places) or cream-filled phallic cup-caked; and a vulva-shaped sandwich cookie with red jam inside and a concentric cookie on top in order to see the jam, with a red or pink candy morsel to serve as the clitoris. They are not exactly anatomical, after all; just schematics or representations. So, are these items really so distasteful? I don't believe that they are.

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Permalink Reply by Nuadu on August 31, 2009 at 1:29am: Fair play to you for being able to bake but that is repulsive can you say honestly that you didnt suggest it to get a reaction? It might be a gross laugh in private afterwards but not as a part of a serious celebration.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Wade on August 31, 2009 at 9:34am: No, I most certainly did not recommend the suggestion merely to elicit a reaction; and I hardly see how any idea can be viewed as "repulsive" in light of the fact that the anatomy is quite natural; ancient cultures routinely had phallic processions; and the Craft is an erotic religion. As a consequence, phallic and vulva cakes are, in fact, the most honest and genuine hallmarks of the most serious celebration!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Nuadu on August 31, 2009 at 11:36am: Yeah the anatomy is natural but Bealtaine is not a fertility festival its a fire festival and a jizzy willy cake and a bloody menstrual vagina pie? That would only be done for the pure gross out factor Wade.

Before you go hoisting the righteous indignation flag in the next reply first consider that Bealtaine isnt just a Sabbat - its a Traditional Irish Festival. A festival still celebrated in Ireland in the secular folk trads aswell as by neopagans in the traditional pagan context. Bealtaine was celebrated outside the conext gardiner gave it (and recent neo wicca gives it) for aslong as we have written records, and after the roman empire we have the oldest written records in europe. The way Bealtaine is celebrated and Bealtaines meaning is clear.

Your way of behaving at the festival would be inappropriate here and in Pagan Ireland would be leathal to you. Aswell as the oldest vernacular lit after latin we also have the oldest codified legal system in the world. The major festivals had a set code of behavior and only one punishment for breaking the rules on those days - death. Its not an appropriate time to swing your willy around and act like a kid at the ritual or the general gathering, its a serious religious occasion and the laws for festivals indicates that.

You are free to reinterpret and practice the festival in any way you like, youre not in Ireland and noone will stop you, but before hitting that reply button I recommend reviewing your opinions in light of what bealtaine means in its 'ancient culture' of origin; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Wade on August 31, 2009 at 12:26pm: Oh, puh-leeze! First of all, thank you for illustrating quite beautifully your own puritanical views, and endorsing them as "Pagan". Next, I highly doubt that that the ancient cultures would have regarded their phallic-cake processions (as with the Greeks and Romans, and even modern Chinese), as well as the antique Hebrews with their vulva-like goddess-pastries as objects of contempt and scorn.

That Beltane is intimately associated with fertility is widely held, whether under the feast of the Roman goddess, Maia and Flora who were worshiped at this time, as well as the Indo-European sky- and thunder-god (often visualized as a phallic bull-deity) whom, it was believed, fertilized the earth-goddess with the rain that was His semen. Many IE thunder-gods have an intimate association with the Rites of Summer now chiefly remembered through folklore, such as rolling a burning wheel down a hill (Beltane-proper and in some districts of ireland, britan and Europe during Midsummer). If you think that I am suggesting is revolting, read the Hindu hymnal texts, The Rig Veda, sometime! They portray the gods as a bunch of "jizz"-gusslers and snowballers! Agni, the fire-god, god down on his knees to swallow and consume Siva's semen, spurt after spurt, because only Agni's erotic flame could withstand Siva's seed. Soma, the divine liquor of immortality was the moon-god who personified semen itself 9probably due to the gray-white color of the stuff naturally being linked to the moon). Moreover, the moon itself was regarded as Indra's chalice (the Hindu thunder-god) which, when it was full (a sign that Soma had retained all of his own semen and needed to be "drained"), Indra would consume this honey-like "nectar" because he couldn't get enough of it!

Considering the Indo-European preoccupation with fertility, it is only natural that they would have an equal preoccupation with fecundity centered upon the season of Summer (I am presently researching an Indo-European seasonal calendar). Given our pagan forbear's views, one would think that contemporary Pagans would be far more appreciative of phallic or vulva cakes, dare i even say "enlightened" more like European culture. I, for one, refuse to allow the Craft to be some sanitized shadow that's been hijacked by the Fluffy fringe! Oh, and jam-fulled yoni-shaped cookies are not "bloody"; rather, it represents the inner flesh of the birth-canal.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Nuadu on August 31, 2009 at 9:44pm: Im sorry Wade for a second I thought you wanted opinions and not cheap personal validation. If youre this big a pain in the arse its no wonder they didnt take suggestions from you. Just as a matter of interest, did this incident happen months ago or are you confusing Bealtaine with Lughnasa?

I would see two problems with your idea that Bealtaine is a summer festival, one Irish festivals arent seasonal and two it doesnt fall in summer.

1) The Irish festivals are agrarian, so bealtaine as with all the other Irish festivals revolves around the life cycle of Crops and Livestock not the seasons.
2)If Bealtaine was a seasonal festival it would not be a summer festival because spring begins at the vernal equinox March 21st and ends at the Solstice on June 20th. Bealtaine is May 1st meaning it occurs in spring.

Its not going to be a fertility festival either. Sheep are born february/March and Calves are born April/May, given their respective gestation periods that means the time where being fertile is important should be in August. Likewise the crops are growing in spring but they dont go to seed until August.

BTW Im from Ireland how is it youre partaking in 'enlightend european culture' but Im the one from europe and I have 'puritanical views'?

Listen if youre going to use Irish words Wade I recommend knowing about the Irish meaning. The Sacred Isle: Belief and religion in pre christian Ireland or the Encyclopedia of myth legend and romance by Daithi O hOgain would do you. Or failing that just say may day or walpurgis night youre speaking english and I take it you dont speak Irish or have any interest in Irish culture. Those would be the more likely option for you.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Wade on September 3, 2009 at 12:31am: Just as a matter of interest, did this incident happen months ago or are you confusing Bealtaine with Lughnasa?

No, it happened many months ago. I merely broached Lughnasadh because you seem to be under the impression that the Irish-Celts reserved no phallo-centric ideals in conjunction with any of their seasonal celebrations.

I would see two problems with your idea that Bealtaine is a summer festival, one Irish festivals arent seasonal and two it doesnt fall in summer.

Your proposition only holds merit if you ignore (as you obviously are) the larger Indo-European substrate from which the Irish-Celts were borne. The Summer Solstice relating to the onset of summer is an Indo-Aryan/ Germanic ideal, not an Indo-European/ Celtic one. In fact, most specialist scholars that I am aware of defer to Beltane as the celebration that heralded in Summer within Ireland. In fact, in China we also find an analogous date near-identical to Beltane Old Style which is the onset of Summer (as with the other three Irish seasonal portals); this is more important because the Tocharians, an Indo-European tribe had migrated from the PIE homeland into what is today China. Other Indo-European cultures hold the seasonal portals similar to those of the Irish-Celts. For example, both the Polish and Balts/Lithuanians regard the onset of Spring in early February which associates it with Imbolg.

Also, I am well acquainted with the works of Prof. Daithi O hOgain, as well as many others. Incidentally, one of the best recent works on Indo-European studies is Prof. ML West's book, Indo-European Poetry and Myth. I also recommend JP Mallory's The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World, as well as Prof. David Anthony's The Horse, The Wheel, and Language.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Wade on August 31, 2009 at 12:37pm: You seem to be under the impression that phallic-worship and even phallic cakes of any sort would have been entirely out of place for the Iron Age tribes of Britain and Ireland, regardless of the seasonal festival. However, we know that they had many horned ithyphallic deities. Evans-Wents argues that the menhirs were phallic symbols intimately associated with local sun-cults (male IE sky-deities). And, even Prof. Nerys Patterson maintains that Lughnasadh was not only a male-centered religious celebration, but that even it had phallic connotations (which probably led to full-out ceremonies).; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Nuadu on August 31, 2009 at 9:52pm: BTW there are no horned Gods in Ireland and there are no representations of Ithyphallic deities either. Youre thinking of England. Honest to god.

Also evens-wents was a part of a social aristocracy of wealthy travel writers not a meritocracy like a university professors so he doesnt hold any kind of academic weight. Try reading something that isnt out of copyright and behind the times by a 100 years.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Wade on September 3, 2009 at 12:18am: I'll have to check my archaeology books, but I am pretty sure that there are representations of Horned and ithyphallic deities in Ireland. but, even if there aren't, there's decent evidence that An Daghda was a Horned God (a bull-god of thunder, sun and sky, in fact, like an IE proto-type that he is).

Your disdain for EW is appalling, as he is still cited by scholars as a reliable resource to this day. However, I think that you might be relying too heavily upon the obscurantist and highly flawed works of polemicist, Ronald Hutton.; ▶ Reply to This