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This debate has been around way too long however most of us believe we know the answer. In the beginning there was Rock, metal, to alternative but in or beginning there was punk. Punk came around in the late 60's to 70's and is still around but all music evolves and changes but todays punks is nothing like the beginning but opened the doors to post punks and power pop. Back in the 80's punk opened the doors to a more artsy version of itself known as Goth Rock and Death Rock then came electronic Goth to what we call Industrial but its beginning is way more complicated.

Way back during the industrial Revolution The Art of Noises (Italian: L'arte dei Rumori) was a Futurist manifesto, written by Luigi Russolo in a 1913 letter to friend and Futurist composer Francesco Balilla Pratella talked about the evolution of sound. He notes that the earliest "music" was very simplistic and was created with very simple instruments, and that many early civilizations considered the secrets of music sacred and reserved it for rites and rituals. Russolo compares the evolution of music to the multiplication of machinery, pointing out that our once desolate sound environment has become increasingly filled with the noise of machines, encouraging musicians to create a more "complicated polyphony" in order to provoke emotion and stir our sensibilities.

He notes that music has been developing towards a more complicated polyphony by seeking greater variety in timbres and tone colors. Russolo explains how "musical sound is too limited in its variety of timbres." He breaks the timbres of an orchestra down into four basic categories: bowed instruments, metal winds, wood winds, and percussion. He says that we must "break out of this limited circle of sound and conquer the infinite variety of noise-sounds," and that technology would allow us to manipulate noises in ways that could not have been done with earlier instruments. 

During the industrial revolution music was created with Industrial equipment and todays Industrial is nothing like the original industrial back in the 70s's or so with such bands as white house and throbbing gristle ect. Industrial music is a style of experimental music that draws on transgressive and provocative themes. Skinny puppy, Velvet Acid Christ, Ministry, Nine Inch nails (esp. Skinny Puppy and V.A.C.), and Kraftwerk as well as the velvet underground did a great job in adding to and updating Industrial music.

Todays industrial however is a bit different and more pyrotechnics and club based (as is most of todays music including goth). Music always evolves and changes; it is unreal how many genres of music there are now. Goth and industrial both have several genres each as do all types of music. The scenes and communities themselves also change and evolve as everything does and there are several different types of Goths as well as punks and alternative people. This is also the same with religion just like politics.

I have only known of the goth community since mid 1990's but have always been a goth as I believe it is more than just about the music. Most people believe goth music came before industrial but it actually came before goth music. Gothic music is generally dark, obscure, and melancholy; it is sometimes angst and in your face or can be personal but it is always anti-mainstream and unique Generally it is rock or metal but lately it has evolved to be more electronic and club based.

Industrial is mostly upbeat, mechanical, and electronic but can also be metal or hard rock. Goth and industrial is often interwoven as in the community. Some members however stick to one of the genres but I prefer both; most Goths like several different types of music as the community is not just about music however I only like Goth and industrial with some exceptions such as 80s music but generally like all my music dark. 

Rev. JP Vanir 

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Wonderful input and a great start for a discussion. I too love all kinds of music and Goth is definitely more than just music and art. 

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