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Permalink Reply by knottybynature on April 1, 2008 at 5:25pm

Actually, the word totem is misleading, but yes, they had 'animals of power'. Consider the boar and the stag.

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Permalink Reply by C'Rose on April 1, 2008 at 5:39pm

Well in alot of Celtic myths they do! Morrigan~ told by the Celtic to have an Raven as an totem and also her familiar. There is a lot of in depth about this.

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Permalink Reply by Xuchilpaba the Nezahualcoyotl on April 1, 2008 at 8:25pm

I agree there with Knottybynature. I'm not disagreeing with you, just that the term is not accurate in the sense of Celtic myth.

According to my sources, Morrigan is a magical shapeshifter in general that has changed her shape alot. The raven/crow thing is likely because to the Celts seeing one on the battlefield was a omen that you were going to die. Thus its connection with the war, the battlefield, and death is obvious with Morrigan. Then you have Badb, shes more associated with ravens than Morrigan is.

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Permalink Reply by knottybynature on April 2, 2008 at 2:34pm

Being a carrion bird, it would be unusual not to see them at a battlefield, where lay the dead and dying. I think that people use the word totem synonymously because either A) the culture doesn't have a word which means the same sense or because B) if they do have it, the researcher doesn't know it yet.

Although you seem to downplay the raven in the Aztec mythos, there is probably a few other stories which have them in regards - the raven in celtic mythos was not so much an omen of warriors likely to die, but perhaps thought of that amongst the ravens, the Morrigan Herself was watching to decide which of the armies engaged was more worthy of winning the war. People tried to read these natural occurrences as omens, which occurs in many different nature-based faiths.

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Permalink Reply by Xuchilpaba the Nezahualcoyotl on April 2, 2008 at 4:24pm

>Although you seem to downplay the raven in the Aztec mythos, there is probably a few other stories which have them in regards

No not really. Not any major stories or any stories at all. They aren't like Native American tribes who revere them.(Although some tribes don't care about ravens/crows either.) I'm not downplaying it. Theres just not much to say about it. Some cultures just don't revere animals as sacred as others do. For the Aztecs, this happens to be the raven and crow.

I think all the Floretine codex had to say was a mention of it being a carrion eater. If it were special, you'd see more about it. You'd hear some story about it or hear about it in ritual use, which you don't. You'll hear about bats, quetzal birds, mawcaws and etc, but the Aztecs don't really give much thought about crows nor ravens. They're not that special to them.

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Permalink Reply by Xuchilpaba the Nezahualcoyotl on April 2, 2008 at 5:09pm

Ah ha. Heres our only mention of Aztec ravens..

11:43 of the Florentine: "It stores
things. It eats ripe maize ears, it stores ripe maize ears- it piles
the ripe maize ears up within [the hollows of] trees. It eats tunas
(the cactus, not the fish), it eats flesh."

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Permalink Reply by CelticDao on April 1, 2008 at 3:11pm

From Pacific Northwest Native American Mythology, the Raven is "The Trickster" to me. They have always been close to me, and I have watched their mating flights from atop a cliff, on an April day. I have measured their speed (in a dive, with their wings folded back 45º) at an astonishing 130 miles per hour, sustained over two miles. While The Morrigan is special to me, I do NOT consider the raven to be my principal totem animal (that would be Owl). But the Raven is a significant part of my "Circle of Wings", along with Owl, Goose, and Rufous Hummingbird.

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Permalink Reply by SIN on April 1, 2008 at 3:15pm

My uncle had a pet Raven, they are smart birds, but I think Crows are more of a trickster bird. He had the Raven and an Amazon Parrot side by side, and the Raven would always manage to get the Parrot's food undetected. Sly birds.

I'm more partial to Crows.

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Permalink Reply by Xuchilpaba the Nezahualcoyotl on April 1, 2008 at 4:44pm

At least someone can differiantrate between the two! But I still can't spell. :P

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Permalink Reply by CelticDao on April 1, 2008 at 4:47pm

Up in the high mountains of Colorado, we don't seem to have any crows, just ravens. Not sure why that is. Down on the palins around Denver, they have both.

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Permalink Reply by Amethyst on April 3, 2008 at 3:01am

I know what you mean, the ravens always follow me and are not afraid at all of being within a couple of feet while being spoken to.

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Permalink Reply by SIN on April 2, 2008 at 8:23am

LOL, yeah we have some rather large crows here in VA and a lot of people mistake them for Ravens. They are fairly easy to tell apart, all you need to do is look at their tail feathers. They have two distinct shapes. Ravens are traditionally much larger than crows, but lately I don't know - the crows are HUGE. Spiritdaily.com has several stories dedicated to these 'omens' about crows. You should go check it out, amusing stuff.

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