Man as a carnal beast

It's apparent, all over Paganspace specifically that man is a carnal beast. It is human nature to oppose ideas that don't hold true in ones heart. I know that Pagans in general, like to distance themselves from being referred to as 'Satanists' or 'Devil Worshippers' but in its truest form; I have seen countless people who claim to be 'sunshine and lolly-pops' act as the Hassatan (Satan) in various topics. Whether it be a daily news bulletin, a blog, or a world issue; we often have a beastly response.

There seems to be this clinging on to 'duality' black magic, white magic - good and evil. I think its ridiculous. There is no division in the sand that says 'you are good, here stand on this right side' and 'you are bad, you stand on the left side' - the only duality is the REAL YOU and people's PERCEPTION OF YOU.

What is magic anyway? It's the shaping of one's world by the power of will. It is INFLUENCE, and MANIPULATION of people, places and ideas.

We hammered some things out in the topic 'A witch who can not hex, can not heal' but I'm seeing this need for division even still. Magic is colorless, my will has no color; I just embrace my carnal nature and for that I am vilified. I am a realist, and I don't get caught up in hand-picked realities. I will not have things pre-chewed and spoon-fed to me; I examine all things then draw my own conclusions. So if someone makes a claim, my response will be - PROVE IT. I take nothing on 'faith' or 'belief'.

Lets take for instance, 'The Power of Prayer' and its 'healing abilities'; scientists have proven though study that 'prayer' has no affect on a person's health. These studies were used using the scientific method. There is absolutely no evidence that prayer can heal. Yet, people place their faith in it. So much in fact, there have been a countless number of deaths because people left the health of a loved one in the hands of God.

I don't see the difference between the above, and the power of 'spells' or 'rituals' to bring forth change. However there is evidence of change as the change within one self. You can go through all the motions, to condition the mind to either take an action, or change a mindset. I don't see any claims being made that this practice should replace any medical advice from a doctor. I have not read about deaths of loved ones because a 'spell' was cast.

My carnal nature says to me: QUESTION ALL THINGS. I draw my conclusions, and express my opinion when asked 'hey what do you think about this concept'; then people get offended. Like wildcats fighting for a meal; the frenzy begins. If you don't want my opinion; DON'T ASK. I will give it, I won't always agree with you, and will have ideas of my own. I may even spark something within you; that has you in a position to re-examine your own ideals - how aweful! How evil of me!

I've made you think! I've freed you from the herd! You are now an individual, making your own examinations and drawing your own conclusions. You are now also embracing your carnality! I'm a virus? I'm infecting the universal life force with my evil powers! Oh no! Run for your life!

Think again about the Biblical Tale of Genesis. A serpent, not the devil, tempted Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge. A serpent is one of God's own creations. Does the serpent represent God's 'EVIL' side? Why is knowledge forbidden? Why would God want man to live in ignorance; serving him blindly? How would man know he had free-will; if he has no knowledge of what free-will is?

Why is the serpent vilified in this story? Why isn't God called out for his ego-manical plan? Simple. Man created this story, and all of the characters to demonstrate what true 'ethics' and 'morality' is without having a true understanding himself. This is why you find so many contradictions and borrowing from other cultures (such as Paganism).

Is it natural to turn the other cheek? As a carnal beast it is TIT FOR TAT. If a man strikes you on the cheek - then smash him on the other! Why should you forgive the person who means you harm? Does forgiveness set any one free? Don't we in fact create our own lords of karma? Lex Talionis reigns the carnal world! We are our own judges, and juries. If you can accept your actions free of guilt ; then LIVE and move on. These scriptures intend to create guilt and I see similarities in the Wiccan Rede. 'And it harm none' - I have heard the arguments that this can be interpreted many ways. Wiccans can act in self defense, and not break the code. Why? Because it's natural to defend oneself. A magical/religious act for selfish reasons is considered breaking the code; yet anyone who believes for one minute these magical practices are for anyone but the self is fooling yourself.

It is man's carnal nature to want more than we have, to envy our neighbors belongings and aspire to obtain just as much (if not more). It is man's nature to rage and fury against anyone that intends us harm. We are prideful, vain, lustful, envious, raging beings!

We are all beasts, sometimes worse than those on all four because of our intellect!

Are you a carnal beast or a bunny in the hole?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Fred McGuinness on June 24, 2008 at 6:48pm: Is it evil that happens every time a wolf needs to eat? Yea, war is terrible, but we populate this planet on a massive scale. The more beasts and bunny's there are, the more carnage there will be. Nature is balance. Bears are strong, deer are fast, monkeys climb, snakes are poisonous, tigers hide and humans are smart. All earths creatures have attributes. But we are all still just creatures...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Sabrina on June 29, 2008 at 4:20pm: I must add..."Carnal Nature", if we're referring to the two most base survival instincts, are the sex drive and aggression. The human animal is the only animal on planet earth with a cerebral cortex or what is called "the new brain". This actually serves the purpose of separating us from the other animals of the planet by giving us the ability to reason and make decisions beyond what is merely instinctual. This also gives us the ability to reason and choose NOT to. I will never say I do not judge others. I can, however, in good conscience claim that I TRY not to. I am far from lollipops and sunshine, I can be an insufferable b*%@h when given reason. However, I feel humans, with their higher capacity for thought and reason, have a responsibility to strive to refrain from inflicting harm (whether physical, mental or spiritual) to others without provocation. I'd like to think we are neither beasts or bunnies, but people. People have ability to decide to refrain from inflicting damage needlessly. People also have the ability to know, through reason, when inflicting damage is necessary in order to protect oneself or others. Also, we have the ability to interpret all information with logic and choose to do what we will with it. To be a beast...or a bunny... or what have you...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Fred McGuinness on June 29, 2008 at 9:23pm: Thoughtful comment. We do have attributes that no other creatures have. But so do other creatures. I don't think that carnal nature is just a sex drive. The bible refers to carnal nature as being all the wrong doings of man, not that Im religious.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Bourne of Twilight on June 29, 2008 at 11:31pm: Right on, again!!. Hopefully, your words will reach the right ears. You go, girl!!!!!!!!!! :) :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Faol Sith on July 4, 2008 at 9:27pm: I don't know if I consider myself a carnal beast. I know I'm not a bunny. I am to much of a sensualist not to be carnal. I won't sleep around but damn when I don't get good booty I get pissy. I also have aggressive tendencies that I tend to keep a leash on, a tight leash on. As in waffle stomping someone for pissing me off crosses my mind.
Is a really good fight such a bad thing every once in a while? I have male friends who love to beat the crap out of each other for fun. Not to the point that they are bleeding but I know some of them get bruised up. ( *cough*Ulfric*cough*)

.......you gave me something to think about Sin.....thanks; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by SIN on July 31, 2008 at 9:06am: Anytime. :-)

Now I ask you, what does it mean to be a 'beast' in your opinion?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Faol Sith on July 31, 2008 at 9:25am: Everyone's perception of what it is to be a beast is different. At least I think so.

For me its recognizing and acknowledging that I am an animal. ( Humans are animals after all). I have instincts and urges just like any other animal. Some people give in to some more than others, just as I give in to some of my own more than others. Or at least that is the best way I know how to put it in to words. Primates as a whole have a capacity that some other animals lack, however it is predominantly evident in man that these traits seem to evolve and expand. Get better or worse.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Alaysha Sky on July 30, 2008 at 11:15pm: Everybody seems so focused on "embracing the shadow" these days. To deny the lighter side of ourselves is just as bad. Denying Bunny is no better than denying Beast.

What gets me is how people can claim to worship Nature and her laws but not know what She is. They don't open their eyes and look around them, how things have been set up. We are meant to kill for survival and defense, everything is. We are also meant to live in a harmonist state. Think “Circle of Life”.
If we weren’t meant to be spiteful or compassionate, why do these instinctual emotions exist?
Nature doesn’t differentiate between spiteful or compassionate, we do. Nature is just about survival; birth, growth, procreation, death, rebirth…How you act while doing that is self-servant and rewarded or punished by you. Why some people embrace a lighter side of walking through the world, other prefer a darker one. Neither way is right or wrong.

We make rules restricting our beasts so we can live in a society together and feel safe. Would you really want to live in a world where anyone can come into your house at any time and hurt or take your life or a loved one’s life without having to face punishment?

Do we need to kill for survival now though? Why other animals still have to kill if they want to eat we can just go to the grocery store. We don’t have to directly kill. So we let our beasts out in other ways. Poor social behavior and bad manners seem to be a favorite. Some kill or hurt for fun or sport. Right or wrong?

Things are not colorless for we have given them color. If they truly were then how do you know what the majority of people are talking about when they say black and white? There is a common belief in what is acceptable and what is not weather instinctual or social.
You can spout off about how you are both but realize that when you do, you are acknowledging a duel exists which indicates colors.
You can spout off about only being beast or only being bunny but to recognize what these labels mean is to recognize their opposites exist in the world. If you recognize the need for beast then you have to recognize the need for bunny unless you are just not getting it.
To acknowledge that there is no duel is nothing less than being able to look at the world and truly see no differences. Perhaps that is enlightenment.

And yes, everything everyone does is fixated around a selfish act. A selfless act doesn’t exist. You do good to feel good or get good back. Some people do bad to feel good. You love someone to be loved back. You let people into your life with an agreement of what you can give and take from each other.

Just the way I see things.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by peace lily on July 30, 2008 at 11:28pm: I was confused. I was just gonna say I LIKE it when my man acts like a "carnal beast"! *wink* LOL
P.L.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by SIN on July 31, 2008 at 9:11am: Mother nature is a bitch, if you've ever spent any amount of time observing it; you would most certainly know that - so to that I whole heartedly agree.

It's a matter of being influenced by mediums such as television, movies, and books that paint another picture. People seal themselves in their own spheres of existence and fail to realize that they are under the influence. We are constantly under the influence; which is why we must strive to examine all things, and draw our own conclusions. Why people are so content to be spoon-fed their realities is beyond me.

We apply labels as identifiers, such as 'good/bad', 'black/white', 'light/dark' and they are subjective. What is good for one, may be bad for another.

The word 'beast' seems to have a negative connotation - what does beast mean to you? What about 'carnal'?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Howl Coyote on July 30, 2008 at 11:40pm: I agree with much of this, but I simply want to ask you a question, but only to understand your thought process. You back up each point very well, but there is one instance that befuddles me.

It is man's carnal nature to want more than we have, to envy our neighbors belongings and aspire to obtain just as much (if not more). It is man's nature to rage and fury against anyone that intends us harm. We are prideful, vain, lustful, envious, raging beings!

I agree with what you say in that despite our ability, or perhaps our addiction to, reason, we are crippled in our search for truth. My question lies not in your idea's shown, but rather your methodology.

If we, as people, rely on our instincts, why must we qualify them with such negative tones? I have learned thus far in my path to rarely if ever rely on logic, but rather the instincts given to me by my animal spirit. The beauty of instinct is that it has no qualifiers. It merely IS.

I propose this opportunity for mere thought: I understand the words you use, and I believe I understand they why, but when dealing with the most basic forms of instinct, the instinct of our true nature, there are no qualifiers that we can attribute to ourselves. Childish words like 'good' and 'evil' are only used, and thus given some charade of meaning, when the process of logic is involved. And thus by instinct we are faultless from any perspective, but with the application of logic, we become fundamentally flawed from any perspective.

I may just be blowing all of this out my backside, but at the moment, with about three drinks in me, I feel that I am making a justifiable point.

But I've been wrong before.

And that is all I have to say.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by SIN on July 31, 2008 at 9:14am: If we, as people, rely on our instincts, why must we qualify them with such negative tones?

In what way negative? What 'tone' do you perceive when reading these words?; ▶ Reply to This